I come to you under no pretense of peace, so let me just get straight into this rant that you unknowingly requested for. Yes, I read souls in my spare time. Today, I’m coming for YOU. Yes you (abi na us) religious folk, who lack control, not to mention human decency (others will argue logic) during non-religous discourse. To help us identify ourselves, I’ve come up with four simple questions, and the answers to these questions should tell us all we need to know. Lets jump right into it, shall we? We shall.
Question One: Are you a member of any of these three religious denominations? Christian/Muslim/Men? (haha)
Question Two: Do you often engage in intellectual/social discourse? Or to further simplify, regular ig-nant ass conversation?
Question Three: To prove your point, do you find yourself usually quoting the “unquestionable” teachings/texts from your respective holy book?
Question Four: Do you either a) Forget that you’re conversing with individuals that may or may not subject to your religious beliefs, or b) Are completely aware, but believe it is your God-given right to disregard this fact?
If you’ve answered Yes to Questions 1, and 2, I’m happy to announce to you that you are the brand new winner of… NOTHING! Yeah, sorry.
However, if you’ve answered Yes to all of the above, then it is my pleasure to gift to you the keys to open the door to the left! *y’all are cheering at this point, obviously*
You see, it is with this key that you can open the magical doors to…. *drumrolls*… GO F*CK YOURSELF!!
Because you’re annoying. As f*ck. Initially, I was just going to leave the TNC squad to express them, and tell you why you’re annoying. However, despite your reliance on others being logical, and/or doing your googling for you, I’m feeling quite generous today. So I’ll start us off.
There is nothing (I repeat NOTHING) wrong with you having religious beliefs, and allowing those beliefs to guide you and your principles. What is important to note though, is the word “you” in the previous statement. Your belief is subjective and personal: it is yours. And as much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it’s also important for me to point out that unlike YOU, not everyone holds YOUR personal/religious beliefs. Therefore, not everyone can look at the world with the same lens with which you look at the world. Does this now mean that you can’t engage in conversations with “unbelievers” or people of different beliefs? Absolutely not.
In fact, what if I told you that you could do just that? What if I told you that you can debate, and have mentally stimulating conversations with people from all walks of life? What if I even took it a step further and told you that instead of doing that thing that you’re so used to doing, and whipping out your sword (read Bible please) whenever you feel backed into a corner, that you can actually just… Not. What if you just for once understood that your beliefs are yours, and that everyone isn’t operating on the same “moral grounds” you’re operating on? What if someone told you that despite their choice not to rely on religious beliefs, they are still very capable of not only debating social/regular ass issues, but they can even come up with solutions? Would it offend you if you were informed that your inability to reason beyond your Bible is actually lazy of you?
Because it is. If you’re going to have answers/solutions, make sure that they’re applicable to all of us. I’m hoping you can conclude by now that one of the things that make you so deeply irritating/annoying- yes, even to some believers- is your inability to do just that- your refusal to be inclusive, and to reason beyond what you so easily rely on.
I’ll stop here, and allow you to speak. Oh, and the others on TNC.
Temi Temi… Thank you for this interesting piece. I think I’ve shared my thoughts too many times on this same subject in the comment section of this platform – even to the point where I was accused of taking sides. Anyways, I’m just glad we are starting to have these conversations. For me, it all goes back to that one thing that guides us as a people – our culture. I keep saying that it’s time for us to question the static nature of our societal norms. It’s unfortunate but traits like being judgmental and “inconsiderably religious/spiritual” (which is how I choose to tag what you described in this post) can all be traced back to generations before ours. Some will say thats what makes us who we are – maybe. But now that we know better (this doesn’t mean we’ve learnt from the west – it’s just common sense), shouldn’t we at least modify that aspect of our culture?
Thanks for commenting.
What makes it worse is how they claim some sort superior “spiritual insight” when, for arguments sake, you decide to indulge them with their bibles. They can’t even defend the faith they so vigorously proclaim. Just sad
**quivering in my boots**
The original bully sticking her tail between her legs… http://blog.ufuomaee.org/2017/01/26/say-it-to-my-face/
However when you (a supposed Christian- LOL) fail to give me the benefit of the doubt, read me actually telling someone not to call out names as being disingenuous, not only carry on to play the victim, but take it a step further and write a post about how I’m supposedly cowering behind my post? You are out of it and you clearly, today, have me to tell you.
You do not know me, therefore you don’t know sh*t about my character. If I were speaking about you, trusttttttt that I would leave enough clues for you. I don’t do subtle, and I’d prefer if next time, you and your friends unlooked my post. Also, please stop showing yourself and take down that narcissistic, victim-wanna-be post you placed a link for. If I weren’t so irritated, I’d be laughing at this whole thing.
There’s really no getting around this, is there? No matter how sure I am that it was my comment you were referring to when you wrote: “I come to you under no pretense of peace, so let me just get straight into this rant that you unknowingly requested for”, you can deny it until Kingdom come.
Thankfully, you admit that you did see my comments on the recent post with S. You also gave another clue: “Initially, I was just going to leave the TNC squad to express them, and tell you why you’re annoying”.
There’s really no way of me knowing that it was my comments specifically that inspired you to finish the post you ‘started’ writing after that Funmi fiasco. The question will always be there – what if I am wrong? And I stand to look like someone with a persecution complex. Well, maybe I am. And maybe posts like yours (you’re not the first) and comments like yours (which you may all feel are completely harmless) have finally hit the nail on the head…
Maybe, maybe not. We will never know. However, I will honour your wish, since you say it wasn’t intended for me.
And while I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, I’m sorry for any offense caused.
Sincerely, Ufuoma.
Dear editors, this was very mentally stimulating:)
I dont think Jesus gave any conditions under which it was okay to not pay taxes. Did he?
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Take Christianity for example… if were to live by Christian tenets, we’ll be worse than barbarians.
Your religion fades in the face of any social argument. This has been proven again and again. Mysogyny, child abuse, terrorism, slavery, racism, etc are just a few of the examples
I wonder how’d you react when a religious non-Christian also draws from their holy books. I’m sure most religions have their holy books and doctrines.
Thanks for commenting.
Peace and love.
On this article, the topic?
+ The same way we are asking those that always go religious on every topic to consider that not all discussions are is the same way we have to accept that that is how they have chosen to see things. You have chosen not to, they have chosen to, it is that simple. On attacking and claiming a to have superior spiritual insight, that is a personality thing. ‘Everyone is annoying’ and you can always find something wrong with everything.
On point 2.. I think there’s a mix up here. I don’t think accepting someone’s faith/religion is the issue here. If people go the extra mile to personalize their views based on their faith, I don’t think we’ll be having this conversation. Friction occurs when there’s a generalization and expectation that others who don’t share your beliefs should “allow it”…
Allow it, as in allow it, or allow it, as in live it?
How we voice our ‘problem’, and this is to everyone, is the issue. That can never be perfected tho, like i said “one can always find something wrong with anything.”
I must say tho, if articles like this, and whatever the ‘muse’ for the article was, didn’t exist on TNC, it would an half-ass site. We are real people… #RealPeopleBehavior
Take the recent Funmi Iyanda fiasco as an example. A woman simply stated that she didn’t want to marry, as she didn’t feel like it was for her. However people (we’ll begin to call them irrationally religious) were up in arms in her mentions, telling her she was useless (lmao) because according to the bible, marrying and having children is exactly what a woman is supposed to do.
Regarding your last statement, the issue isn’t with how they’ve chosen to see things. The issue is (as Tula mentioned below) the generalization.
All I’m saying is that you shouldn’t impose those beliefs on others or expect them to relate with you based on those beliefs. You can have your opinions but you should personalize them – “I believe blah blah… “. The issue comes when you start saying stuff like “You should/Shouldn’t you yada yada yada…”
I really hope this explains it better…
“After telling a person, that this is my stance I will go ahead to tell said individual that this is what I think everyone in that situation should do. I would generalize. Yes, I would say I think you should do this or not do this. ”
This exactly is the bane of contention here and though Im not a lawyer or anything, it’s at this point that you become liable. You went on to say this:
“I would not physically prevent the person from doing as he pleases, neither would I insist he does it.”
But what you may not realize is that you do not need to physically make this person do you will before you become liable. It is a very thin line which our culture and religion continuously blurs. But let’s say for instance, the topic is suicide and someone comes to you to discuss it saying they’re thinking about ending their life. You voice out your opinion and then go on to say, you think they should do it. Even if you do not force or help them to commit suicide, if there’s record of you telling them to go ahead, you can be charged.
Might sound technical but if you’re being sincere you can apply this theory to pretty much anything. Again, I hope this helps to explain things better.
I’m glad your stance on this issues is getting clearer. I want to clarify a couple of things you said in response to Victoria.
In your last comment, you said:
“But what you may not realize is that you do not need to physically make this person do you will before you become liable. It is a very thin line which our culture and religion continuously blurs. But let’s say for instance, the topic is suicide and someone comes to you to discuss it saying they’re thinking about ending their life. You voice out your opinion and then go on to say, you think they should do it. Even if you do not force or help them to commit suicide, if there’s record of you telling them to go ahead, you can be charged.
Might sound technical but if you’re being sincere you can apply this theory to pretty much anything.”
I think this is a whole lot of exaggerated hogwash that is used to silence Christians, but never used to silence those campaigning for say the legalisation of abortion or prostitution! Christians do not tell people to commit suicide for starters… But a lot of secularists tell people to murder unborn children, with their push for legalising abortion. Now, if I decide to commit abortion, I can’t go back and blame them for it, for supporting my decision to do so! I certainly can’t present that case before God!
And finally, people who commit suicide are mentally unstable and vulnerable, and so that is why anyone telling them they think is a good idea would be liable. Christians expressing their views to unbelievers about abstinence and sexual purity etc is not us forcing anyone to do anything!!! Even if the person is mentally unstable, encouraging them to abstain from sex is not a danger to them!
All your talk is simply fear-mongering, to get those whose opinions you don’t like to shut up! But reverse the table, and you will be pleading freedom of speech.
Sincerely, Ufuoma.
Secondly, I find it funny and somewhat surprising that you used the terms ‘hogwash’ and “fear mongering” when I’ve stated explicitly here that this isn’t about other people and their beliefs, it’s about me as a person. No one is asking you not to believe what you do. No one is even asking you not to say what you believe. My challenge here comes when you expect ME to also believe what you do or when you address ME as if I believe same thing you do.
And to your example, again, it shows that you possibly still don’t fully understand where I’m coming from. Not being insulting or anything but I know sometimes when you’re passionate about something, you tend to have tunnel vision. Let me break it down this way, having someone standing on the street or even going on tv saying “they think, abortion should be legalized” is THIER opinion – not different from you as a christian, standing on the streets or on TV preaching saying “hell fire awaits sinners”.. If this pro-choicer goes directly to a pregnant woman considering abortion and directly tells them to abort in a country where it’s against the law, they are liable. Same way a christian is, like I said in my earlier example (by the way you said Christians do not tell people to commit suicide – I guess you’ve not seen the clip of Pastor Suleiman asking church members to kill).
Those in support of abortion don’t have a global group they belong to – it’s not like a religion with followers who live this principle daily so it’s not easy to single them out. As a result, I can see why you might feel targeted as a christian – probably same way ISIL members who believe in extreme Islam might feel targeted. But please please understand that this is more about me than you. All Im asking is for you to respect me, the way I respect you by knowing when and where to draw the line.
Should I take it personal that you liken me to an ISIL member? Or was that simply to denote that you think my views are extreme? What views are those exactly???
It’s not simply personal, and it’s not totally general either. You switch sometimes. When you say you are Christian, you make it general! When you say you have your own views on how you interpret the Scriptures, you make it personal. Which is it?
You are confusing me continually, but I have no doubt in my mind that your definition of what it means to be Christian is a world apart from mine! And I ALWAYS have that at the back of my mind when I discuss with you…except when you try to tell me that you are Christian, meaning that you follow and obey Jesus, then I have to apply the BOOK to you, PERSONALLY…based on the views you are supporting (since I don’t know much else about you). That’s if we ever get a chance to talk one on one.
For the most part, we do not. So, I do not understand this personal offence I have been causing you. If you think my posts are telling you personally how you should live your life as a Christian and you are offended, because you call yourself a Christian and do not agree with them…please, you don’t have to publish them anymore. If that will result in such great offence to you and others like Temi.
Or, perhaps it is my comments on posts that have NOTHING to do with my faith… But the fact that it was ME who said anything at all, and knowing what my faith is, I am judged as attacking the authour, and those who agree with her – based on my religious views, which I never expressed in the comment, and not the actual criticism I made! You guys really have a way of shutting people up, and still feeling good about yourselves!
And finally -“(by the way you said Christians do not tell people to commit suicide – I guess you’ve not seen the clip of Pastor Suleiman asking church members to kill).” – I hope you know that asking someone to kill someone else is not suicide and it is murder. I also hope you know that people who says such things are NOT CHRISTIAN. Jesus made it easy tell the difference – “You shall know them by their fruits!”
All the best to you, Ufuoma.
If that is not a comparison between me and an ISIL member, I don’t know what is.
I know you would like to tone it down now, because you don’t want you NICE image stained. A bit like the Author of this post, who came guns blazing ready to wage war against the likes of me (she won’t admit it is me specifically, but my kind nonetheless), only to start shrinking back when people started stating the obvious – because she wants to seem civil and nice…
All appearances aside, let’s get it out in the open! I’m not afraid to do so. It has been a long time coming. If you’re going for religious censorship on your comments (or even the whole site), please make that clear, so us religious folk will find our square root. I don’t appreciate being patronised, and told that what I am saying is going to cause someone to harm themselves, while all your talk here is rational, civil, entertaining etc etc.
If you do not reply me, what you’ve said is enough to know where I stand here. And it is very personal. As you have said.
Good luck to you lot!
You might say that it isn’t “physically preventing” me from doing what I please, but let me give an example. In the US, there’s been a lot of conversation about abortions, particularly banning abortions. Now a lot of republicans, who are known to be more conservative and maybe even generally Christian, are in full support. A religious person might agree because..pro life, while a non-religious (and even some religious) might disagree because they’re pro-choice. This idea of pro-life is founded on the bible, no? If a law is now passed that abortion is banned, are we ALL not being affected by it? Pro-choice people have their arguments too in that abortion (regardless of what religious people want) will NEVER not happen. What will happen though is that people will get abortions under environments that are not safe; which is very harmful. There are a host of other reasons as far as pro-choice stance is concerned, but the point i’m making is this: you may believe that the fact that you, as a religious person expect ALL people to live a certain way isn’t harmful, but it could be. I’ll stop here because this has gotten way too long.
I’m sorry to say this but it’s unfortunate that you missed my warnings several time so on this platform to avoid engaging @ufuomaee . She gets so touchy when you don’t agree with her(no matter how objectively you argue), that she’ll resort to insults, condescension and personal attacks.
What religious people fail to realize is that there’s so many issues religion is silently on, especially Christianity. And even when religion has a stand, it’s mostly undefined due to the fact that interpretations are subjective.
@thetoolsman … you are not wrong to suggest that @ufuomaee is “tunnel visioned” when it comes to issues she’s passionate about. I’m sure she knows this.
I believe someone has written a post about whether religion and rational thinking go together on TNC. I should find it and read it again.
I do not know which law will charge me to court for telling people what I believe or what I believe they should do except I told them to do something in a professional capacity(eg as a doctor). But you could educate me. I do know however that there is a legal definition of capacity. As far as I know as long as a person has the capacity to make a decision, the ultimate responsibility of taking that decision rests on the person. Let’s say for one reason or the other the person lacks capacity and I tell the person my belief and the person does something potentially harmful(this also happens within a professional setting), then I am liable. The person who also keeps quiet and says or does nothing when a person who lacks capacity to make a decision is also liable as well. The person who also shares the opposite view to my own probably ‘religious’ one is also liable as well in this scenario. So what do we say then?
Like you said though this has gone on too long but the moral of the story is there is freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom to give advice and share opinions, freedom to embrace and fully practice religion except where it infringes on your basic human rights which is why there are laws in place to protect people from this. There is also freedom to agree to disagree and we both can exercise that right .
Cheers
Cheers, Ufuoma,
I live and work in a country where things such as homosexuality are more accepted than in my country Nigeria. I know where i stand regarding such a topic and what my beloved bible says regarding it too. That being said, do i have gay friends/acquaintances? YES and we get on very very well. Infact i used to have an older woman as my manager years back who would always joke at work that she would happily adopt me if i didn’t have a mom; that was how good our relationship was. And no – i never hid the fact that i was a christian as we would touch on topics related to my faith every now and then.
it’s simple: If you ask me what i think/my opinion is/belief regarding a topic, without being judgmental, I’ll tell you. if you judge me on the back of that or develop a new perception of me, that’s your problem…not mine. You asked the question. I answered. On my side, nothing will change.
I am sure reverse will be the case if you stand in the office every morning, shouting ‘My bible says all gays will go to hell so repent’ or something similar, yes?
the list is endless.
The sooner you realize that religion doesn’t have all the answers, the better.
Cheers!
lol back to the topic. Ok so I think there’s still a misunderstanding; the issue isn’t that you’ve shared your belief, or that you’ve even given advice based on your belief. I’ll give you another example that hopefully explains my view better: I was once having a conversation with a very religious friend about one of our associates who had (after a one-night stand) gotten a lady (that wasn’t his girlfriend) pregnant. Now, as I’m sure we’ve both seen, they (the dude and his now pregnant one-night stand) were forced by their family members to get married. They basically because of cultural and most importantly religious beliefs were forced to start a family together. Even though the guy neither wanted the child, nor wanted to be with this woman he impregnated. Was he irresponsible? Absolutely. There was no disagreement on that end. However, my friend (the super religious one) saw nothing wrong with the fact that these two people were forced into “holy matrimony” because according to her, if they weren’t ready for a baby, then they shouldn’t have been having sex in the first place; regardless of the circumstance. I, however thought it was wrong- I though if she wanted to have the baby, great. And he of course has to assume responsibility for his child. What I didn’t agree with though was the fact that they should be forced to get married because they created a child together. I thought beyond just the fact that the both of them had made a very irresponsible mistake, and thought more about the reality/outcome and who, ultimately would be affected.
The “husband” who didn’t even want to marry the “wife”, and most importantly the child, who would grow up in a family with friction. They are (of course) having issues in their marriage, because they shouldn’t have been together in the first place. However, they were Nigerian- Christians, and that’s what happened. My issue was that my friend couldn’t just accept that things happened- that people made mistakes, that it wasn’t just as simple as “the bible says don’t have sex before marriage” because actual people are being affected. This was what frustrated, and is what often frustrates me during discourse with a lot of Nigerian Christians. No one is saying don’t follow your bible, look at the world through your bible, or even give advice based on your bible. But PLEASE take into account the possible effects, and judge each decision on its merit. Because Christianity is one of the most organized/biggest religions in the world, MANY people (even those that don’t subscribe to Christian views) are having their lives altered by those views. How? Because laws are made on this basis. Laws like the anti-abortion laws, (that does nothing but take away SAFE abortions) and so many others. It’s the reasoning- the shared mentality that CAN potentially affect other people. I hope that explains my views better. There’s never an issue with us disagreeing- the whole purpose was for us to debate. Thanks.
This was long, sorry.
I wanted to say that I read this comment of yours, and I liked and agree with it. It makes perfect sense. And I even wrote a story where my characters faced this dilemma, and the man’s parents tried to force him to marry his fling. It is called The Church Girl, and you can find it on my blog, if you ever care to visit again: blog.ufuomaee.org.
Anyway, the reason I am commenting is that, if you had just written this to begin with, there would be no misunderstanding you. You would have engaged me and many other Christians respectfully, and we would have understood your bone of contention! Rather, what you did was use a VERY WIDE brush on religious people, and tell the lot of us to f*ck off. Naturally, people are going to misunderstand and take offence. And it is clear for all to see that you did mean to be offensive, because of your chosen title, and your whole tone.
Now, you are being civil and explaining yourself better, there’s no need for anyone to be on the defensive, or to think that you are directing the post at them or at a particular person.
I am not trying to justify my response post yesterday, but you have to realise that quite a lot of people put 2 and 2 together, and thought it was me you were referring too. They jumped the gun, and I did too. And I know that I shouldn’t have responded the way I did… That was wrong.
And you were right. I showed myself! I showed you who I am and who I was without Jesus! A fiesty, aggressive person, and I still need God to take a hold of me and keep me in check. I originally had no intention of responding to you the day before yesterday, when someone brought my attention to the post. But something most have snapped in me yesterday. Again, sorry for my outburst. Sorry that I didn’t show you Christ, but myself.
I really hope we can engage ourselves in civil discussions and not emotional rants that hurt people! I may not always agree with you, but I do love a discussion on critical issues. Please try not to generalise so much, because you do hurt people you never intended to hurt.
Thanks for reading, and God bless you.
Sincerely, Ufuoma.
PS: Toolsman your site keeps freezing on me. On my phone and laptop. Please look into it. Cheers! And sorry for snapping at you yesterday about my posts going to spam. I lost my mind in rage yesterday. I sincerely apologise.
Cheers, Ufuoma.
Yeah right, the “agree to disagree” mantra… used when you get stuck in an argument.
Well, whatever makes you sleep at night.
Cheeers!
For a post that seems to be about religion, it seems to be targeted at Christians and Christians alone. Pick a side, it is either about religious people or Christians.
Back to the point being discussed. As long as you live in a secular or multifaith society, we need to learn to be able to communicate to those that do not share our beliefs in the way they understand. My pastor once said that, hold on to the gospel, live by it but when it comes to relating to unbelievers, let it shape how you communicate & interact with them but use their own language to reach out to them.
In summary, I agree with the content of this to some degree but I disagree with the method of delivery
Also, I told a certain someone sometime ago that if he starts to over-comment I would draw his attention to it, so – @thetoolsman this was a post that didn’t need you to moderate (I’m being nice).
Like you mentioned in your first comment, you have stated your view on this topic sooooooo many times, in sooooooo many different ways….after that first comment (since you were so moved to write a response) you didn’t have to keep coming back, interfering, telling people they’re not getting the point (aren’t people allowed to see things from different perspectives? they may get the point but not agree with it)…..you need to know when to just state your point and move on without trying to cram it down other people’s throats.
That’s all! Please, people, it’s all been said, nobody should make anything personal and I’m still watching you @thetoolsman !
Have a nice day 🙂
Yea, you can contribute to conversations but I explained the last time why you should approach it cautiously…I won’t go into it again until the fourth time I have to call you on it (I don’t know why fourth, it just seems right)
Till then…
Btw, there were ZERO links in my comment, @thetoolsman
@ufuomaee I don’t think one physical person puts your comment in moderation. I believe it’s system (information system/computer) rules.
Is it safe to come out now?
No. Don’t tell me what to do.
This post would have been perfect. ..but it gave off a violent and defensive tone. I totally get the point… but you’re definitely going to annoy a lot of people with your method of delivery and even the way you respond to comments.. making it look like you’re angry . you should work on that.
I am not angry btw
have a nice day. :’)
7 whole days and lots of F5 presses later, totally worth it.