My Bible Says…Shut the F*ck UP

Opinion

I come to you under no pretense of peace, so let me just get straight into this rant that you unknowingly requested for. Yes, I read souls in my spare time. Today, I’m coming for YOU. Yes you (abi na us) religious folk, who lack control, not to mention human decency (others will argue logic)…

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I come to you under no pretense of peace, so let me just get straight into this rant that you unknowingly requested for. Yes, I read souls in my spare time. Today, I’m coming for YOU. Yes you (abi na us) religious folk, who lack control, not to mention human decency (others will argue logic) during non-religous discourse. To help us identify ourselves, I’ve come up with four simple questions, and the answers to these questions should tell us all we need to know. Lets jump right into it, shall we? We shall.

Question One: Are you a member of any of these three religious denominations? Christian/Muslim/Men? (haha)

Question Two: Do you often engage in intellectual/social discourse? Or to further simplify, regular ig-nant ass conversation?

Question Three: To prove your point, do you find yourself usually quoting the “unquestionable” teachings/texts from your respective holy book?

Question Four: Do you either a) Forget that you’re conversing with individuals that may or may not subject to your religious beliefs, or b) Are completely aware, but believe it is your God-given right to disregard this fact?

If you’ve answered Yes to Questions 1, and 2, I’m happy to announce to you that you are the brand new winner of… NOTHING! Yeah, sorry.

However, if you’ve answered Yes to all of the above, then it is my pleasure to gift to you the keys to open the door to the left! *y’all are cheering at this point, obviously*

You see, it is with this key that you can open the magical doors to…. *drumrolls*… GO F*CK YOURSELF!!

Because you’re annoying. As f*ck. Initially, I was just going to leave the TNC squad to express them, and tell you why you’re annoying. However, despite your reliance on others being logical, and/or doing your googling for you, I’m feeling quite generous today. So I’ll start us off.

There is nothing (I repeat NOTHING) wrong with you having religious beliefs, and allowing those beliefs to guide you and your principles. What is important to note though, is the word “you” in the previous statement. Your belief is subjective and personal: it is yours. And as much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it’s also important for me to point out that unlike YOU, not everyone holds YOUR personal/religious beliefs. Therefore, not everyone can look at the world with the same lens with which you look at the world. Does this now mean that you can’t engage in conversations with “unbelievers” or people of different beliefs? Absolutely not.

In fact, what if I told you that you could do just that? What if I told you that you can debate, and have mentally stimulating conversations with people from all walks of life? What if I even took it a step further and told you that instead of doing that thing that you’re so used to doing, and whipping out your sword (read Bible please) whenever you feel backed into a corner, that you can actually just… Not. What if you just for once understood that your beliefs are yours, and that everyone isn’t operating on the same “moral grounds” you’re operating on? What if someone told you that despite their choice not to rely on religious beliefs, they are still very capable of not only debating social/regular ass issues, but they can even come up with solutions? Would it offend you if you were informed that your inability to reason beyond your Bible is actually lazy of you?

Because it is. If you’re going to have answers/solutions, make sure that they’re applicable to all of us. I’m hoping you can conclude by now that one of the things that make you so deeply irritating/annoying- yes, even to some believers- is your inability to do just that- your refusal to be inclusive, and to reason beyond what you so easily rely on.

I’ll stop here, and allow you to speak. Oh, and the others on TNC.

Responses

  1. thetoolsman
    Everyone just here for popcorn?

    Temi Temi… Thank you for this interesting piece. I think I’ve shared my thoughts too many times on this same subject in the comment section of this platform – even to the point where I was accused of taking sides. Anyways, I’m just glad we are starting to have these conversations. For me, it all goes back to that one thing that guides us as a people – our culture. I keep saying that it’s time for us to question the static nature of our societal norms. It’s unfortunate but traits like being judgmental and “inconsiderably religious/spiritual” (which is how I choose to tag what you described in this post) can all be traced back to generations before ours. Some will say thats what makes us who we are – maybe. But now that we know better (this doesn’t mean we’ve learnt from the west – it’s just common sense), shouldn’t we at least modify that aspect of our culture?

    1. Temi Niran Post author
      “It’s part of our culture” is another rigid excuse I loathe. People make culture, not the other way around. I loved the term “inconsiderably religious”, although I don’t think it covers it. It’s also obnoxious.

      Thanks for commenting.

  2. Bkd
    I love you Temi. At last, someone gets my pain with…
    What makes it worse is how they claim some sort superior “spiritual insight” when, for arguments sake, you decide to indulge them with their bibles. They can’t even defend the faith they so vigorously proclaim. Just sad
  3. Buzz
    Ahan… I cam for the popcorn and it seems there’s none left… Hey where are the “inconsiderate religious ” peeps? No squeak from y’all? niran is right when she’s says y’all are annoying.
    1. Temi Niran Post author
      Please don’t come on this post and call out names/ attempt to bully people. It’s not what the post was written for. And I’m speaking not only to you, but to anyone else (I’ve seen other comments like this that directly call out her name) in the habit of doing this. Don’t do it on my post. Thanks.
          1. Questioner
            Little girl, you missed again..you just went against everything you ranted about. You also possess a wonderful ability to misrepresent your thoughts, stick to nutrition trivia.
      1. Temi Niran Post author
        I’m responding to you against my better judgement, because I know that what I say won’t make a difference. Now since you are here, let me address you directly. I began writing this post/rant after the whole Funmi Iyanda fiasco. When I saw how people came at her, it reminded me of all the times I had tried in the past to have conversations with SOME irrationally religious people, who instead of applying logic/facts to the topic, get lazy and cower behind the bible. These people disregard how their views could be harmful, even in the face of facts, and how they, and people who think like them cause more harm than good. Is that you? I wouldn’t know, BECAUSE I DO NOT KNOW YOU. I’ve only recently started writing again on the blog, so I’ve barely been following. Because they post you so often, I’ve seen your name, and I even saw your comments on S’s post. However, that’s as far as it goes concerning you. I don’t know you from Adam, and to be frank, I don’t care to know you.

        However when you (a supposed Christian- LOL) fail to give me the benefit of the doubt, read me actually telling someone not to call out names as being disingenuous, not only carry on to play the victim, but take it a step further and write a post about how I’m supposedly cowering behind my post? You are out of it and you clearly, today, have me to tell you.

        You do not know me, therefore you don’t know sh*t about my character. If I were speaking about you, trusttttttt that I would leave enough clues for you. I don’t do subtle, and I’d prefer if next time, you and your friends unlooked my post. Also, please stop showing yourself and take down that narcissistic, victim-wanna-be post you placed a link for. If I weren’t so irritated, I’d be laughing at this whole thing.

        1. Ufuomaee
          Dear Temi,

          There’s really no getting around this, is there? No matter how sure I am that it was my comment you were referring to when you wrote: “I come to you under no pretense of peace, so let me just get straight into this rant that you unknowingly requested for”, you can deny it until Kingdom come.

          Thankfully, you admit that you did see my comments on the recent post with S. You also gave another clue: “Initially, I was just going to leave the TNC squad to express them, and tell you why you’re annoying”.

          There’s really no way of me knowing that it was my comments specifically that inspired you to finish the post you ‘started’ writing after that Funmi fiasco. The question will always be there – what if I am wrong? And I stand to look like someone with a persecution complex. Well, maybe I am. And maybe posts like yours (you’re not the first) and comments like yours (which you may all feel are completely harmless) have finally hit the nail on the head…

          Maybe, maybe not. We will never know. However, I will honour your wish, since you say it wasn’t intended for me.

          And while I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, I’m sorry for any offense caused.

          Sincerely, Ufuoma.

  4. Silent observer
    What’s the difference between what this post hopes to achieve and the very subject matter of the post. Yeah, you guessed right, NOTHING, ‘yeah sorry’.

    Dear editors, this was very mentally stimulating:)

    1. Temi Niran Post author
      Hopefully my response to you will shut this idea down. I do not understand why you would even assume that I wrote this post to shade a particular person.You do not know me, so please refrain from making assumptions about me, or my post. Perhaps the fact that you thought it was meant to shade a particular person says more about you.
  5. OM
    Interesting perspective you’ve shared here. Have you considered though, that it is possible that “we” religious folk feel, and rightly so, that our every conversation should be from the context of our religious books? Call us lazy, but we refuse to reason outside of the one true source of our morality. Our book is the context from which we reason, and make judgement. So, sorry but it will continue to come up when we have a point (or even no point at all) to make. If it helps you, not everything can be rationalized. And not all of us can make sound argument outside of the fact that our good book tells us certain things are to be in a certain way. I believe it so. I choose to be lazy, and not bother to question every instruction it gives me. And as often as the opportunity presents itself, I’ll quote this book, even if only to shut you up. Period.
    1. thetoolsman
      Sorry to butt in .. Maybe you can help me understand this… That part of the bible where Jesus said “give unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s” .. can it not be translated to mean ‘rationalize’ in a very loose sense? I mean, if we were being technical, with all the stealing and corruption going on in our government, should a true believer pay taxes in this country? Yes, I know we have laws but again, if we are being technical, what the author described in this post qualifies as something that can be taken up legally so erm… where does that put us?
    2. Temi Niran Post author
      lol ok. So here’s a PSA: THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK ON RELIGIOUS FOLK. I can see why it could be offensive (that’s if you’re guilty of what the post discusses) but on the basis of you being religious/christian alone, it shouldn’t be. I’m Christian as well, was raised in this religion, go to church every sunday, blah blah. I may not be as religious as some people, but one thing I do understand is that there’s a time and place for everything. I know that there are certain things/principles that I refuse to compromise on (because of my religion) and that’s ok. However, the post stated “non-religious” discourse. That is, if we are having a discussion on gender roles, or rape, or race, and you decide to come at me with archaic religious views/biblical practices without actually engaging me with facts (that are so readily available to us in this day and age- well, minus Trump), I’m sorry but I’m not listening to you.
      1. OM
        So how do you decide what conversations are religious and non-religiois? So you mean, you rest your spirituality when talking about gender roles, or rape or race, even Trump? Thing is, my religion (which is a lifestyle) has an opinion on all of these things. So if we are having a conversation, and I state the position I believe in (which should ideally be in line with the Holy Book), you’d probably still judge me as “lazy”. But thing is, the fact that mentioning a religious position tends to end arguments should indicate that perhaps there is a reason to consider the superior position of such “religious” talk.
          1. Bkd
            That saying is not exclusive to the Bible. It’s a popular saying outside the religious circles. That saying can be applied to non religious situations… duh!
        1. Temi Niran Post author
          I figured someone would come at me with religion being their lifestyle. Lol which again, is understandable and perfectly fine. Now, where I think we’re having a misunderstanding is you stating the position you believe in. There is NOTHING wrong with that. You can state your religious beliefs and perhaps say “this is what my bible tells me and that’s what I (key word “I”) will follow”. However, do not assume that others are operating on your religious beliefs/views. Therefore do not ARGUE based ONLY on your religious views, when it comes to non-religious/social discourse. If I start talking about domestic abuse (for example) and my opinion is that given the damage it does to not only the woman, but the kids (and I’m talking facts here), PLEASE do not start quoting the bible verse on a virtuous woman, and her roles/how she’s supposed to stay with her fuckboy husband because she’s made an oath before God…blah blah. Again, archaic, non-factual, and (most likely) dangerous rhetoric.
        2. Bkd
          I bet your religion has a skewed opinion on these things. Everybody’s religion has a different opinion on these things. What then gives yours superiority over the others. That’s where rationality comes in.
          Take Christianity for example… if were to live by Christian tenets, we’ll be worse than barbarians.
          Your religion fades in the face of any social argument. This has been proven again and again. Mysogyny, child abuse, terrorism, slavery, racism, etc are just a few of the examples
    3. Bkd
      I’m guessing you’re a Christian, from your comments.
      I wonder how’d you react when a religious non-Christian also draws from their holy books. I’m sure most religions have their holy books and doctrines.
  6. Aggie
    ‘I’ll stop here, and allow you to speak. Oh, and the others on TNC’. The end of your post shows it was meant to shade a particular person. I thought everyone had a right to argue the way they want to. As a post that was meant to be a rant, it lacked fire and these days, I’m starting to think Funmi is biased about what she posts. You people should stop throwing shades each other and let TNC be what it used to be. If you don’t like someone’s input on an argument you should either shut the heck up so the person will do the same or change the topic to the weather
    1. thetoolsman
      I think it’s important that I correct a notion here. Funmi is our Editor-In-Chief. She leads a team of editors who look through submissions. There are two levels of review before submissions get to her desk and so she does not solely determine what gets published on this platform. And even as an EIC, she also has a line manager. Thats the level of structure we have put in place to ensure this platform stands out from others.
    2. Temi Niran Post author
      Man, I thought I could analyze but I really have to give it to you guys. I’m honestly, truly impressed. The first post of mine ever published on this blog used this same tone. It actually stated “you” a LOT more than this post does. And I assure you that at that point, I didn’t know/know of a single soul on this blog. I usually don’t feed trolls (since that’s honestly what you’ve become) but I really hate being used as some instrument meant to antagonize a particular person on this blog. For the last time, the post isn’t directed at any particular person on this blog. And for a post that “lacked fire”, it brought you here, no?

      Thanks for commenting.

      1. Aggie
        Your post didn’t bring me to TNC, I saw the title and thought to myself that it might be a good read, I read everything in sight and I comment on how the post makes me feel. If you have a problem with people stating their opinion on something which you obviously do since that is the basis of your write up, you should probably keep to yourself cos you will be criticised everything you do in life, it’s the norm. P.S I didn’t insult you but since we are trading insults now, you are an even bigger troll.
        1. Temi Niran Post author
          You thought it lacked fire, yet you decided to make a comment- hence, brought you here. I don’t have a problem with anyone stating their opinion, but when I’ve already stated that the post wasn’t directed at a particular person, and even called someone out for targeting a particular person, then it is not only annoying, but insulting when you STILL go ahead to suggest that I did that. I don’t mind being criticized. Criticize me on what I’ve written- debate with me. That’s the point, no? But don’t come here and instigate/take away from the post. I also didn’t insult you; I simply made an observation.

          Peace and love.

  7. Morris
    A ‘true’ christian (Child of Christ) with wisdom does rationalize @thetoolsman, whether or not everything they say is from/based on the bible. I mean a pastor may always repeat ‘Women, be subject to your husbands’, but he/she will never tell the husband/woman it’s a good thing to abuse the woman if she doesn’t or tell her she will be rewarded if she stays in the home and takes all the abuse.

    On this article, the topic?

    + The same way we are asking those that always go religious on every topic to consider that not all discussions are is the same way we have to accept that that is how they have chosen to see things. You have chosen not to, they have chosen to, it is that simple. On attacking and claiming a to have superior spiritual insight, that is a personality thing. ‘Everyone is annoying’ and you can always find something wrong with everything.

    1. thetoolsman
      On your first point let me just say you haven’t seen… Isn’t there a pastor in Nigerian currently telling his church members to kill in the name of the Lord?

      On point 2.. I think there’s a mix up here. I don’t think accepting someone’s faith/religion is the issue here. If people go the extra mile to personalize their views based on their faith, I don’t think we’ll be having this conversation. Friction occurs when there’s a generalization and expectation that others who don’t share your beliefs should “allow it”…

          1. Morris
            Oh okay then, that’s inevitable.

            How we voice our ‘problem’, and this is to everyone, is the issue. That can never be perfected tho, like i said “one can always find something wrong with anything.”

            I must say tho, if articles like this, and whatever the ‘muse’ for the article was, didn’t exist on TNC, it would an half-ass site. We are real people… #RealPeopleBehavior

    2. Temi Niran Post author
      Ah that first line- ok, I believe this as well. I converse with many ‘a’ Christians/religious folk that rationalize/bring logic to conversation. But regarding that second statement, like Tula said below, you will be shocked! It’s not even just the pastor that does it. It could be family members that will be encouraging the woman to stay, on no other basis other than “the bible says.”

      Take the recent Funmi Iyanda fiasco as an example. A woman simply stated that she didn’t want to marry, as she didn’t feel like it was for her. However people (we’ll begin to call them irrationally religious) were up in arms in her mentions, telling her she was useless (lmao) because according to the bible, marrying and having children is exactly what a woman is supposed to do.

      Regarding your last statement, the issue isn’t with how they’ve chosen to see things. The issue is (as Tula mentioned below) the generalization.

      1. Victoria
        Sorry o. But you’re not very clear. ‘Religious’ people believe there is a certain way ALL people should live. By the tenets of their own particular faith. So talking about generalization is a moot point. You might not agree to live like them . That is fine. Some of the so called religious people might even twist the words of the Bible for their own purposes or at least to your own interpretations. They might annoy you and their reasoning might not seem logical. But they have a right to believe what they believe. As long as no one is physically preventing you from doing what you please, I think you should allow everyone to have their own opinions while you have yours. Finis
        1. thetoolsman
          Sigh.. Ive read your comments here and I think you need to take a few deep breaths and then come back to read this post and comments again because from what I’ve read, I see you haven’t quite gotten the bone of contention here. I think explained it in simpler terms but long story short. No one is saying you shouldn’t believe in what you do…. No one is also saying you shouldn’t express what you believe even when talking to others.

          All I’m saying is that you shouldn’t impose those beliefs on others or expect them to relate with you based on those beliefs. You can have your opinions but you should personalize them – “I believe blah blah… “. The issue comes when you start saying stuff like “You should/Shouldn’t you yada yada yada…”

          I really hope this explains it better…

          1. Victoria
            I’m sorry you do not agree with my comments. And I would like to state that I do read through before commenting. I appreciate Mr Xs stance. But I do not totally agree. After telling a person, that this is my stance I will go ahead to tell said individual that this is what I think everyone in that situation should do. I would generalize.Yes, I would say I think you should do this or not do this. I would not physically prevent the person from doing as he pleases, neither would I insist he does it. Just like me, he’s been given the freedom of choice. He can decide to cover his ears when I’m talking or walk away or listen politely.And I have the choice of telling him if I think he has made a wrong decision according to what I believe. I can use it if I want to. If someone tells me I cannot or should not do that I definitely would not agree to that. I hope I have explained myself better…
          2. thetoolsman
            Oh please you do not have to apologize for not agreeing with me. That’s your opinion and thats very much ok. I also like that unlike others who have taken your line of argument, you are more expressive about what you will do and what you won’t. Now just to point out a fact I’m not sure you understand from your comment. Let me quote this bit:

            “After telling a person, that this is my stance I will go ahead to tell said individual that this is what I think everyone in that situation should do. I would generalize. Yes, I would say I think you should do this or not do this. ”

            This exactly is the bane of contention here and though Im not a lawyer or anything, it’s at this point that you become liable. You went on to say this:

            “I would not physically prevent the person from doing as he pleases, neither would I insist he does it.”

            But what you may not realize is that you do not need to physically make this person do you will before you become liable. It is a very thin line which our culture and religion continuously blurs. But let’s say for instance, the topic is suicide and someone comes to you to discuss it saying they’re thinking about ending their life. You voice out your opinion and then go on to say, you think they should do it. Even if you do not force or help them to commit suicide, if there’s record of you telling them to go ahead, you can be charged.

            Might sound technical but if you’re being sincere you can apply this theory to pretty much anything. Again, I hope this helps to explain things better.

          3. Ufuomaee
            Hi @thetoolsman

            I’m glad your stance on this issues is getting clearer. I want to clarify a couple of things you said in response to Victoria.

            In your last comment, you said:

            “But what you may not realize is that you do not need to physically make this person do you will before you become liable. It is a very thin line which our culture and religion continuously blurs. But let’s say for instance, the topic is suicide and someone comes to you to discuss it saying they’re thinking about ending their life. You voice out your opinion and then go on to say, you think they should do it. Even if you do not force or help them to commit suicide, if there’s record of you telling them to go ahead, you can be charged.

            Might sound technical but if you’re being sincere you can apply this theory to pretty much anything.”

            I think this is a whole lot of exaggerated hogwash that is used to silence Christians, but never used to silence those campaigning for say the legalisation of abortion or prostitution! Christians do not tell people to commit suicide for starters… But a lot of secularists tell people to murder unborn children, with their push for legalising abortion. Now, if I decide to commit abortion, I can’t go back and blame them for it, for supporting my decision to do so! I certainly can’t present that case before God!

            And finally, people who commit suicide are mentally unstable and vulnerable, and so that is why anyone telling them they think is a good idea would be liable. Christians expressing their views to unbelievers about abstinence and sexual purity etc is not us forcing anyone to do anything!!! Even if the person is mentally unstable, encouraging them to abstain from sex is not a danger to them!

            All your talk is simply fear-mongering, to get those whose opinions you don’t like to shut up! But reverse the table, and you will be pleading freedom of speech.

            Sincerely, Ufuoma.

          4. thetoolsman
            First of, I suggest strongly, that you do some research to help you change this extremely wrong opinion you stated here — “people who commit suicide are mentally unstable and vulnerable”

            Secondly, I find it funny and somewhat surprising that you used the terms ‘hogwash’ and “fear mongering” when I’ve stated explicitly here that this isn’t about other people and their beliefs, it’s about me as a person. No one is asking you not to believe what you do. No one is even asking you not to say what you believe. My challenge here comes when you expect ME to also believe what you do or when you address ME as if I believe same thing you do.

            And to your example, again, it shows that you possibly still don’t fully understand where I’m coming from. Not being insulting or anything but I know sometimes when you’re passionate about something, you tend to have tunnel vision. Let me break it down this way, having someone standing on the street or even going on tv saying “they think, abortion should be legalized” is THIER opinion – not different from you as a christian, standing on the streets or on TV preaching saying “hell fire awaits sinners”.. If this pro-choicer goes directly to a pregnant woman considering abortion and directly tells them to abort in a country where it’s against the law, they are liable. Same way a christian is, like I said in my earlier example (by the way you said Christians do not tell people to commit suicide – I guess you’ve not seen the clip of Pastor Suleiman asking church members to kill).

            Those in support of abortion don’t have a global group they belong to – it’s not like a religion with followers who live this principle daily so it’s not easy to single them out. As a result, I can see why you might feel targeted as a christian – probably same way ISIL members who believe in extreme Islam might feel targeted. But please please understand that this is more about me than you. All Im asking is for you to respect me, the way I respect you by knowing when and where to draw the line.

          5. Ufuomaee
            Interesting, @thetoolsman. So it has become about me and you. It is personal now, se?

            Should I take it personal that you liken me to an ISIL member? Or was that simply to denote that you think my views are extreme? What views are those exactly???

            It’s not simply personal, and it’s not totally general either. You switch sometimes. When you say you are Christian, you make it general! When you say you have your own views on how you interpret the Scriptures, you make it personal. Which is it?

            You are confusing me continually, but I have no doubt in my mind that your definition of what it means to be Christian is a world apart from mine! And I ALWAYS have that at the back of my mind when I discuss with you…except when you try to tell me that you are Christian, meaning that you follow and obey Jesus, then I have to apply the BOOK to you, PERSONALLY…based on the views you are supporting (since I don’t know much else about you). That’s if we ever get a chance to talk one on one.

            For the most part, we do not. So, I do not understand this personal offence I have been causing you. If you think my posts are telling you personally how you should live your life as a Christian and you are offended, because you call yourself a Christian and do not agree with them…please, you don’t have to publish them anymore. If that will result in such great offence to you and others like Temi.

            Or, perhaps it is my comments on posts that have NOTHING to do with my faith… But the fact that it was ME who said anything at all, and knowing what my faith is, I am judged as attacking the authour, and those who agree with her – based on my religious views, which I never expressed in the comment, and not the actual criticism I made! You guys really have a way of shutting people up, and still feeling good about yourselves!

            And finally -“(by the way you said Christians do not tell people to commit suicide – I guess you’ve not seen the clip of Pastor Suleiman asking church members to kill).” – I hope you know that asking someone to kill someone else is not suicide and it is murder. I also hope you know that people who says such things are NOT CHRISTIAN. Jesus made it easy tell the difference – “You shall know them by their fruits!”

            All the best to you, Ufuoma.

          6. thetoolsman
            Wow.. wow.. wow.. Im totally blown away by your comment. This is what I meant by being too passionate about a topic and not being objective. Please read the part of my comment where I mentioned ISIL, did I say that specifically about you? And you really think I don’t know the difference between suicide and murder? Look, this life isn’t that serious and like you said, you do not know me at all neither do I know you. I continued this conversation because I thought we were having a nice adult conversation that had nothing whatsoever to do with your (Ufuoma’s) posts, your comments but if you are going to go this route then I’m going to just leave it here before people think there’s more to it like you seem to believe despite the fact that you can confirm that in our private communication, I’ve never treated you differently (negatively) from any other contributor here – if anything, you’ve enjoyed preferences others haven’t. I guess that doesn’t matter. Good luck and God bless.
          7. Ufuomaee
            This is what you actually said: “As a result, I can see why you might feel targeted as a christian – probably same way ISIL members who believe in extreme Islam might feel targeted.”

            If that is not a comparison between me and an ISIL member, I don’t know what is.

            I know you would like to tone it down now, because you don’t want you NICE image stained. A bit like the Author of this post, who came guns blazing ready to wage war against the likes of me (she won’t admit it is me specifically, but my kind nonetheless), only to start shrinking back when people started stating the obvious – because she wants to seem civil and nice…

            All appearances aside, let’s get it out in the open! I’m not afraid to do so. It has been a long time coming. If you’re going for religious censorship on your comments (or even the whole site), please make that clear, so us religious folk will find our square root. I don’t appreciate being patronised, and told that what I am saying is going to cause someone to harm themselves, while all your talk here is rational, civil, entertaining etc etc.

            If you do not reply me, what you’ve said is enough to know where I stand here. And it is very personal. As you have said.

            Good luck to you lot!

        2. Temi Niran Post author
          “Religious people believe there is a certain way ALL people should live”. Finally, we’re talking. Now, this is their belief, and you’re right in that I might not agree to live like them. But the issue still remains, in that they believe ALL people (Regardless of whether or not these people subscribe to their faith) should live the way that they live. It’s ignoring what the reality is, and the issue is that often times during these social conversations, they argue on that basis. They completely ignore the fact that not everyone’s beliefs are in line with their beliefs.

          You might say that it isn’t “physically preventing” me from doing what I please, but let me give an example. In the US, there’s been a lot of conversation about abortions, particularly banning abortions. Now a lot of republicans, who are known to be more conservative and maybe even generally Christian, are in full support. A religious person might agree because..pro life, while a non-religious (and even some religious) might disagree because they’re pro-choice. This idea of pro-life is founded on the bible, no? If a law is now passed that abortion is banned, are we ALL not being affected by it? Pro-choice people have their arguments too in that abortion (regardless of what religious people want) will NEVER not happen. What will happen though is that people will get abortions under environments that are not safe; which is very harmful. There are a host of other reasons as far as pro-choice stance is concerned, but the point i’m making is this: you may believe that the fact that you, as a religious person expect ALL people to live a certain way isn’t harmful, but it could be. I’ll stop here because this has gotten way too long.

          1. Bkd
            Temi,
            I’m sorry to say this but it’s unfortunate that you missed my warnings several time so on this platform to avoid engaging @ufuomaee . She gets so touchy when you don’t agree with her(no matter how objectively you argue), that she’ll resort to insults, condescension and personal attacks.
            What religious people fail to realize is that there’s so many issues religion is silently on, especially Christianity. And even when religion has a stand, it’s mostly undefined due to the fact that interpretations are subjective.
            @thetoolsman … you are not wrong to suggest that @ufuomaee is “tunnel visioned” when it comes to issues she’s passionate about. I’m sure she knows this.
            I believe someone has written a post about whether religion and rational thinking go together on TNC. I should find it and read it again.
          2. Victoria
            Hi, sorry for the late response. Was tied up. I do like this reply to my comment and I do wish you had written the entire post like this and left out all the profanity. That being said, I still cannot agree with you. For the sake of argument, you imply that if I tell people my belief and they use that to make a decision which may be potentially harmful to them, then I’m liable. The toolsman also referred to this. I do wish there were better examples given than pro-life and suicide though because beliefs about both issues are shared by religious and non religious people.
            I do not know which law will charge me to court for telling people what I believe or what I believe they should do except I told them to do something in a professional capacity(eg as a doctor). But you could educate me. I do know however that there is a legal definition of capacity. As far as I know as long as a person has the capacity to make a decision, the ultimate responsibility of taking that decision rests on the person. Let’s say for one reason or the other the person lacks capacity and I tell the person my belief and the person does something potentially harmful(this also happens within a professional setting), then I am liable. The person who also keeps quiet and says or does nothing when a person who lacks capacity to make a decision is also liable as well. The person who also shares the opposite view to my own probably ‘religious’ one is also liable as well in this scenario. So what do we say then?
            Like you said though this has gone on too long but the moral of the story is there is freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom to give advice and share opinions, freedom to embrace and fully practice religion except where it infringes on your basic human rights which is why there are laws in place to protect people from this. There is also freedom to agree to disagree and we both can exercise that right .
            Cheers
      1. Sirkastiq
        Hahaha… there was no code here really. Temi is just such a foodie. Somebody that eats, sleeps, farts and snapchats ONLY FOOD. I was actually surprised she could put up something completely not related to food.
  8. Mr X
    I have to say i do agree with both the author @temi-niran & @thetoolsman . I’m a christian myself. Not perfect by any way or means but i strive daily to be better and make this a lifestyle rather than a “religion”. My understanding and belief on this topic (assuming i understand where the author is coming from) is simple: Nobody has a right to impose anything on anybody for any reason or have an expectation that if they have a belief and you don’t share it, you’re inferior or worse you should/must share it. And if i recall and understand my bible correctly, this is what Jesus said and practiced. Everyone has a right to decide…everyday and in every situation. No exceptions.
    I live and work in a country where things such as homosexuality are more accepted than in my country Nigeria. I know where i stand regarding such a topic and what my beloved bible says regarding it too. That being said, do i have gay friends/acquaintances? YES and we get on very very well. Infact i used to have an older woman as my manager years back who would always joke at work that she would happily adopt me if i didn’t have a mom; that was how good our relationship was. And no – i never hid the fact that i was a christian as we would touch on topics related to my faith every now and then.

    it’s simple: If you ask me what i think/my opinion is/belief regarding a topic, without being judgmental, I’ll tell you. if you judge me on the back of that or develop a new perception of me, that’s your problem…not mine. You asked the question. I answered. On my side, nothing will change.

    1. Vanilla
      Honestly, you stand a better chance wining souls with this lifestyle as an ‘unbeliever’ is likely to listen to you more based on mutual respect .Sinve you have created that opportunity for them to get closer and most likely to listen to things you say, you can then preach to them.

      I am sure reverse will be the case if you stand in the office every morning, shouting ‘My bible says all gays will go to hell so repent’ or something similar, yes?

  9. Victoria
    Wow. .. The vitriol in this post is amazing. Such colourful language. For those of us ‘religious’ people that you might be referring to, let me assure you that our religion is not something we just pull out at any time it suits us. It is more than a religion to us or going to church on Sunday. It is a way of life. It colours everything we do. So there’s nothing such as non religious discourse to us. Our views are shaped by our beliefs. You might not like it and you’re welcome to call us self righteous and hypocritical and what not. We also reserve the right to think you’re wrong. Deal with it! You might want to remember Saul of Tarsus though.
    1. Bkd
      There’s something like non religious discourse. I bet your religion is silent on Alien contact, space travel, artificial insemination, surrogacy, climate change, plastic surgery, IVF, FGM, childbrides, Universal adult suffrage, democracy, nuclear/chemical warfare, resource control, blood transfusion, surgical transplants, bdsm, oral/non-coital sex, animal rights, etc….
      the list is endless.
      The sooner you realize that religion doesn’t have all the answers, the better.
      Cheers!
      1. Victoria
        Well I could tell you that my faith does have answers to all the questions but you’re not likely to agree with me. So we can agree to disagree. The sooner you realize that your view about religion or faith does not automatically make it accurate, the better. Cheers
        1. Temi Niran Post author
          For whatever reason, I’m not given the option to respond to the thread above, so I have to do it here. Now, regarding profanity, I naturally cuss like a sailor- very foul mouth. Which makes me wonder though, why are “curse” words bad? Aren’t they just another way to effectively express yourself? Perhaps this is something you can educate me on.

          lol back to the topic. Ok so I think there’s still a misunderstanding; the issue isn’t that you’ve shared your belief, or that you’ve even given advice based on your belief. I’ll give you another example that hopefully explains my view better: I was once having a conversation with a very religious friend about one of our associates who had (after a one-night stand) gotten a lady (that wasn’t his girlfriend) pregnant. Now, as I’m sure we’ve both seen, they (the dude and his now pregnant one-night stand) were forced by their family members to get married. They basically because of cultural and most importantly religious beliefs were forced to start a family together. Even though the guy neither wanted the child, nor wanted to be with this woman he impregnated. Was he irresponsible? Absolutely. There was no disagreement on that end. However, my friend (the super religious one) saw nothing wrong with the fact that these two people were forced into “holy matrimony” because according to her, if they weren’t ready for a baby, then they shouldn’t have been having sex in the first place; regardless of the circumstance. I, however thought it was wrong- I though if she wanted to have the baby, great. And he of course has to assume responsibility for his child. What I didn’t agree with though was the fact that they should be forced to get married because they created a child together. I thought beyond just the fact that the both of them had made a very irresponsible mistake, and thought more about the reality/outcome and who, ultimately would be affected.

          The “husband” who didn’t even want to marry the “wife”, and most importantly the child, who would grow up in a family with friction. They are (of course) having issues in their marriage, because they shouldn’t have been together in the first place. However, they were Nigerian- Christians, and that’s what happened. My issue was that my friend couldn’t just accept that things happened- that people made mistakes, that it wasn’t just as simple as “the bible says don’t have sex before marriage” because actual people are being affected. This was what frustrated, and is what often frustrates me during discourse with a lot of Nigerian Christians. No one is saying don’t follow your bible, look at the world through your bible, or even give advice based on your bible. But PLEASE take into account the possible effects, and judge each decision on its merit. Because Christianity is one of the most organized/biggest religions in the world, MANY people (even those that don’t subscribe to Christian views) are having their lives altered by those views. How? Because laws are made on this basis. Laws like the anti-abortion laws, (that does nothing but take away SAFE abortions) and so many others. It’s the reasoning- the shared mentality that CAN potentially affect other people. I hope that explains my views better. There’s never an issue with us disagreeing- the whole purpose was for us to debate. Thanks.

          This was long, sorry.

          1. Ufuomaee
            Hi Temi,

            I wanted to say that I read this comment of yours, and I liked and agree with it. It makes perfect sense. And I even wrote a story where my characters faced this dilemma, and the man’s parents tried to force him to marry his fling. It is called The Church Girl, and you can find it on my blog, if you ever care to visit again: blog.ufuomaee.org.

            Anyway, the reason I am commenting is that, if you had just written this to begin with, there would be no misunderstanding you. You would have engaged me and many other Christians respectfully, and we would have understood your bone of contention! Rather, what you did was use a VERY WIDE brush on religious people, and tell the lot of us to f*ck off. Naturally, people are going to misunderstand and take offence. And it is clear for all to see that you did mean to be offensive, because of your chosen title, and your whole tone.

            Now, you are being civil and explaining yourself better, there’s no need for anyone to be on the defensive, or to think that you are directing the post at them or at a particular person.

            I am not trying to justify my response post yesterday, but you have to realise that quite a lot of people put 2 and 2 together, and thought it was me you were referring too. They jumped the gun, and I did too. And I know that I shouldn’t have responded the way I did… That was wrong.

            And you were right. I showed myself! I showed you who I am and who I was without Jesus! A fiesty, aggressive person, and I still need God to take a hold of me and keep me in check. I originally had no intention of responding to you the day before yesterday, when someone brought my attention to the post. But something most have snapped in me yesterday. Again, sorry for my outburst. Sorry that I didn’t show you Christ, but myself.

            I really hope we can engage ourselves in civil discussions and not emotional rants that hurt people! I may not always agree with you, but I do love a discussion on critical issues. Please try not to generalise so much, because you do hurt people you never intended to hurt.

            Thanks for reading, and God bless you.

            Sincerely, Ufuoma.

            PS: Toolsman your site keeps freezing on me. On my phone and laptop. Please look into it. Cheers! And sorry for snapping at you yesterday about my posts going to spam. I lost my mind in rage yesterday. I sincerely apologise.

        2. Ufuomaee
          Hi Victoria, been reading your responses today, and I must say “thumbs up” are in order! I especially like the long response you gave explaining the concept of capacity. That was what I was trying to say to @thetoolsman too about suicide and mental instability. As a social worker, who studied mental health, I know what I am talking about. Once the subject of suicide comes up, everyone ought to be careful what they say and how they advice the person!!!

          Cheers, Ufuoma.

        3. Bkd
          I dare you to whip out a scripture to back them up. Your “good book” will disappoint you.
          Yeah right, the “agree to disagree” mantra… used when you get stuck in an argument.
          Well, whatever makes you sleep at night.
          Cheeers!
    1. Sirkastiq
      Of course, there’s always a cheaper way; Open it on a friend’s phone/laptop…Just tell them you want to show ’em a good thing. Genius, I know. You’re welcome 🙂
  10. Ladipo
    I do not know why we don’t stop discussing religion. No one wins! It comes down, whether directly or otherwise, to ‘mine is greater than yours’. Secondly, madam wey write this vexatious article, you must understand that religion does not work effectively with objectivity. The moment it does, religion will end. Fanatics play a great role. You started fierily but ended it cold. That ‘refusal to be inclusive’ is sometimes a religious act. You have to understand and even respect that fact.
    1. Temi Niran Post author
      I liked “vexatious”. Now I have to find an opportunity to use it. You stated that the refusal to be inclusive is a religious act. I’d love if you explained this more. Thanks.
      1. ladipo
        You expect objective and respectful communication but you know that some people are taught to perceive others as ‘bad’ based on their beliefs. hence, inclusiveness can become a sinful act for them. Refusal becomes the right thing to do. Does it make any sense? No! But it is a feature of religious diversity.
  11. Larz
    Your bible said what? Wetin concern Bible with profanity? For someone who wants others to respect other people’s point of view, you probably could have presented this in a much more respectable manner. Also, I am not sure you need so much profanity to drive your point home.

    For a post that seems to be about religion, it seems to be targeted at Christians and Christians alone. Pick a side, it is either about religious people or Christians.

    Back to the point being discussed. As long as you live in a secular or multifaith society, we need to learn to be able to communicate to those that do not share our beliefs in the way they understand. My pastor once said that, hold on to the gospel, live by it but when it comes to relating to unbelievers, let it shape how you communicate & interact with them but use their own language to reach out to them.

    In summary, I agree with the content of this to some degree but I disagree with the method of delivery

  12. bethelbrill
    I agree with the author, and to be sincere most “Christians” do this, you would be having one meaningful conversation with someone and boom he brings in his religious views and he won’t stop at that, he will go on to tell you why you need to adopt those views too if you want to survive and if you decline he gives you that “you are going to burn in hell fire” look. If you believe in the bible or any religious book of your choice please don’t expect everybody to be like you and the most annoying thing about these people is that they cannot stand a conversation with a non Christian (an atheist or a Muslim). They tend to get irritated when people of other religions talk but would not mind rubbing theirs on your face. and I am a Christian (Rational One)
  13. Miz
    I think this has gone on long enough! I have nothing to say about the post and I think everyone has said what NEEDS to be said…anything more is just dragging this thing on for longer than it deserves. Now people are starting to take things personal on a whole other level, just stop!

    Also, I told a certain someone sometime ago that if he starts to over-comment I would draw his attention to it, so – @thetoolsman this was a post that didn’t need you to moderate (I’m being nice).

    Like you mentioned in your first comment, you have stated your view on this topic sooooooo many times, in sooooooo many different ways….after that first comment (since you were so moved to write a response) you didn’t have to keep coming back, interfering, telling people they’re not getting the point (aren’t people allowed to see things from different perspectives? they may get the point but not agree with it)…..you need to know when to just state your point and move on without trying to cram it down other people’s throats.

    That’s all! Please, people, it’s all been said, nobody should make anything personal and I’m still watching you @thetoolsman !

    Have a nice day 🙂

    1. Morris
      Lol, you have definitely taking his responses ‘personal’ too if you have to call them moderating. I mean should he not comment or reply comments addressed to him, or comments he just felt the need to respond to.
    2. thetoolsman
      Hey there.. been a minute.. Are you sure you’re watching me? You didn’t do this when I “over commented” on the post about single women and marriage..:) Seriously though, you said I moderated, I didn’t do anything like that. I’m a member of this community too (now more than before since I no longer edit) and I joined the conversation like I often do on so many posts. I don’t think I should get special attention when it comes to religious posts. People are very allowed to see things differently but my conscience won’t rest if I allow an opportunity to educate pass me by. This was the case in the instances you mentioned, a person can’t even get to the point of seeing things differently if they don’t understand the actual debate in the first place which was what I kept coming back to do using one example or the other. Now that I see that’s going nowhere, I’ll just go back to commenting on other posts. You can’t win ’em all.
      1. Miz
        Now now, when I first said I would let you know if you’re over commenting it wasn’t a religious post, so no, you’re not getting special attention cause it’s a religious post…you know you didn’t talk this much on the post you referred to

        Yea, you can contribute to conversations but I explained the last time why you should approach it cautiously…I won’t go into it again until the fourth time I have to call you on it (I don’t know why fourth, it just seems right)

        Till then…

  14. Morris
    Yes, i was going to comment on the comment moderation, i don’t think that (Link in comments) is the only rule that puts a comment in moderation, because it happened to me earlier this week, i believe it finally went through as I can’t even remember the comment.

    @ufuomaee I don’t think one physical person puts your comment in moderation. I believe it’s system (information system/computer) rules.

  15. zee
    Hmm..

    This post would have been perfect. ..but it gave off a violent and defensive tone. I totally get the point… but you’re definitely going to annoy a lot of people with your method of delivery and even the way you respond to comments.. making it look like you’re angry . you should work on that.

    I am not angry btw
    have a nice day. :’)

  16. Chiebuka
    Been refreshing this page since I saw this post, but for some reason; it never loaded up.
    7 whole days and lots of F5 presses later, totally worth it.
  17. Duncan Daniels
    I read and read until I literally ran out of popcorn 🍿…..if there’s anything I gathered from all this reading, one thing is certain, Nigeria is a very gifted country filled with excellent writers. Please Temi just write your book already and be great 👍🏾

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