Beautiful songstress Ciara got engaged to her boo Russell Wilson last week after dating for a little over a year and as expected the Internet went crazy with all sorts of comments, views, opinions etc. There were those who “oooooh-ed and awwww-ed” at the fairy tale like progression to the love story between the two, there were those who bitched and moaned about how life isn’t just fair because some people get second chances and they haven’t even gotten one, there were those who threw shade at Ciara’s ex and of course, there were those who hurriedly connected the seeming success of their relationship to their decision to stay celibate.

Now all these reactions were expected – I mean, we’ve seen it all and heard it all before but what I didn’t really expect was that the celibacy angle would end up becoming louder than even those trolling Future and her former relationship. But it is what it is and I have taken it upon myself to help all of us get back to the point:

Celibacy didn’t get Ciara a ring.

If you ask me how I know this for a fact, I will quickly throw the question back at you – how do you know for a fact that it did? But this is just to highlight the point of this post – truth is, except you’re chums with Cici and Russell or except they write a book about it later, truth is, we won’t know. But the reason I’m writing this post is because I sure damn well hope its true that celibacy didn’t get her that ring.

Let me start by putting the minds of our in-house evangelists at peace – I have nothing against celibacy in relationships. As with many of my posts, I’m writing from a position of experience. I was once in a very-serious-almost-approaching-marriage relationship and we decided to remain celibate. Did we end up getting married? Nope? Do I blame our decision to remain celibate? Not absolutely but it sure as hell played a huge part in our decision to end the relationship.

But before I go to town on this, context is key. I do not blame the act of being celibate – my issue is the “why” and the “how” and this is the main reason why I am here today.

Recently, a very close female friend of mine got into a relationship with a guy she had been seeing for a while. They had had sex a few times while they were dating but as things got serious between then, she always noticed a slight hesitation from him whenever it was time for them to get down and dirty. She didn’t bring it up but it all made sense when he asked her to become his girlfriend and then he said he’d rather they stay celibate in their relationship. Obviously he had had issues in his past relationships because he felt most of them were all about the sex and he never really connected emotionally or otherwise with any of his exes. With my friend, he wanted more because he saw an actual connection between them and so, bye-bye sex.

Quite commendable wouldn’t you say? I’m sure most of you would have thought he was doing it because of his religion or something. Nah, dude is just awesome like that. Only problem was that my friend is in her mid twenties and she had been celibate the past few years before meeting this dude because she came out of a really really shitty relationship and decided she was just going to save it for the next sensible guy she gets in a relationship with. And so when this dude came along and ticked all the right boxes, she was looking to unleash her inner Riri and put in Work Work Work to make up for lost time only for Mr. to hit her up with celibacy. But she went along with it anyways – who wouldn’t after all, his reasons were quite valid.

A few months into the relationship, they started having issues. Not issues particularly about the celibacy decision but if you are discerning enough, you’d be able to tell that it formed the foundation of their problems. Basically, my friend started feeling weird almost to the point of thinking she was unattractive because brotherman was freaking committed to his cause. Like they would sleep on the same bed and nothing. Like NOTHING. As someone who has been there and done that, trust me, e no easy. He obviously had more control than her possibly because celibacy was HIS decision and he had probably spent a significant amount of time processing it and preparing himself for it. For her, it was more like a cold slap on the face. Imagine after waiting three years and an Idris Elba lookalike finally falls crazy in love with you and he ticks all your other boxes only for him to say you know what, can’t really have all of him yet because of some dead and gone women from his past relationships?

Not only was this unfair to my friend, it was also very traumatic because she was trying hard to be supportive of his decision which is right by many standards but the problem was the way she or rather, they went about it.

In such a situation, you cannot over emphasize communication. I faulted her for not coming out to express how she felt the moment he proposed celibacy. Sure, it’s a very responsible thing to propose but because he was already mentally ready and she wasn’t, they could have met each other halfway and ease their way into it. Sex is and will always be a MAJOR major part of every relationship and decisions on such a subject should not be made by one half of the partnership. Even in marriage, if you have a wife in the late stages of pregnancy and doctors advice you to stay away from sex, you still need to talk about it together.

In conclusion, for those celebrating celibacy as the hero in the Ciara/Russell love story, the truth remains until we are told specifically, we don’t know it is but I can sure bet a finger on the fact that the communication, trust and understanding among them probably played a greater role in the success of their relationship than their decision to remain celibate. Yes, celibacy before marriage can be good for those who can manage it but it is important we focus on the really important underlying facts.

Agree or disagree with me? You know the drill; use the comment box to express you.

Image via: Dailymail.co.uk

Responses

    1. Anonymous Aboki
      I thought you & writing were practising celibacy too. I think y’all were; you tapped out Toolsman – kongi is a bastard.
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  1. John Bosco
    I see Celibacy as honour to God with our bodies and a commandment as many faiths preach (I’m Christian). There are other key issues that have to be considered before putting the ring We can all see Ciara was happy with this guy. She came to Naija and she was evidently confident and happy.
    I hope she enjoys her marriage to Russell.
    5+
  2. Ms Cheexy
    Ciara strikes me as a beautiful soul. I don’t think the proposal has anything to do with celibacy, if it did, then why did Future also propose to her? Yes, we know that didn’t go well. My point is, the girl appears to be a genuine person and that in itself, can be both attractive and endearing. They also appear to be a couple who communicate and are really close.
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  3. Snow
    “Let me start by putting the minds of our in-house evangelists at peace”……………LOL. JUST LOL.

    i have to agree with this post. Whatever decision has to be made in a relationship, total communication, understanding and trust has to play a major role, It’s a relationship between two people and i have never been comfortable with the idea of just one person making a decision that affects them both based on his/her personal experience. It is very selfish, and even if it helps the other in the long run, you don’t cut them out of the decision making process and expect them to be totally okay with it.

    Constant communication and trust cannot be overemphasized in a relationship. everything else is built on those two points.

    I also do not like when people allow ghosts of past relationship influence how they go about current relationships.

    Nice Post

    AND I’M FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    4+
  4. Femme
    I totally agree. I dont see any one so desperate for sex that they will wife you just to have sex. Is the sex running away? Besides, its so available these days that you can play your celibacy to one person and getting it from another anonymous person. Sad, but it happens!

    Surely, when there is no sex in a rship, it gives room to other activities for bonding on another level. So, sometimes, it helps both partners decide with their head and not groin, what is best for them in the rship.

    That said, there is no way celibacy was the main reason for quick engagement or marriage. If celibacy was such a deciding factor, ask my aunt, sister Keziah who went through 5 celibate rship and got married at 38 in the first none celibate rship she had.

    I may be blabbling but you get my point.

    10+
    1. anonymous aboki
      I’ve been thinking about this “..Besides, its so available these days that you can play your celibacy to one person and getting it from another anonymous person..” a lot recently.

      The angle deserves some ‘attention’..

      1+
      1. thetoolsman Post author
        I touched on it a bit in the Cheaters series I wrote last year. In fact, I know a lot of guys who now agree to celibacy with their main (especially when marriage is on the cards) to save face while they’re getting it steady on the side from someone else.
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  5. Od
    I agree that celibacy in itself is not enough to make a relationship work. What makes it work is commitment on both sides to the same goals and objectives and values. When that fails at any point, even celibacy might not save it. So, yeah, two people must agree on what they consider important. If I want to keep sex for marriage and she’s not sure about it, it will cause problems. If she does and I’m not sure I do, it’ll cause problems. We must agree and we must be so completely dedicated to it that we will let each other be our rock and reminder when one of us is too tempted or too weak. Or else it won’t work.

    I’ll also match you: I have everything against not being celibate before marriage, lol. The fact remains that when people have sex outside of marriage, it’s hard for it not to be exploitative. People are better protected as to their sexual security within the bonds of marriage. So, the absence of celibacy is apt to result in a failure of a relationship much faster than the presence of it.

    Welcome back, Tools.

    4+
    1. Snow
      “the absence of celibacy is apt to result in a failure of a relationship much faster than the presence of it.”
      I guess you are speaking for yourself because this generalization is simply amusing.

      In fact, your entire last paragraph is amusing. And my answer lies in the fact that there are over 7 billion people in the world,

      4+
      1. Od
        It is? I confess I don’t know why you find it amusing. Your point about the number of human beings in the world was not clear to me either if it was your reason.

        Because however many humans there are and however far apart they are from each other, they all share humanity. That means that they have very similar proclivities and inclinations. That is easily seen in the similar emphases and taboos in different cultures around the world some of which are so far from each other that contact is not a good explanation for the things they share.

        1+
        1. Snow
          People are celibate and they breakup. People also have sex and they breakup.

          People are celibate and they get married. People also have sex and they get married.

          Breakup or Marriage. Faster or Slower. Celibacy or Sex. People breakup and People get Married.
          Stop making it seem like the decision to have sex leads to a faster breakdown of a relationship.
          Sex can be exploitative in whatever situation it is practiced, in marriage or not.
          Whether they are having sex or not, if a relationship is going to breakdown, it eventually will, whether in 10 years or 10 months,
          You people keep blaming sex as the reason why something will fail or not, without considering that despite the dynamics of an relationship, what matters most are the two people involved.

          You can take the same set of environmental conditions and place two or ten different couples in it, and you will always get different results. DIFFERENT RESULTS.
          So before you start stating the presence or absence of something leading to the faster or slower eventuality of another thing, remember that it is not the same for everybody.

          9+
          1. Od
            Snow, it’s hard to deal with a discussion where your opposite deliberately ignores your arguments and just keeps beating you over the head with what they insist is true without any appeal to reason. It’s tiresome and I don’t really have time for discussions in general, to say nothing of such discussions in particular. If you think my arguments are wrong, just indicate why you think so and if I can counter your reasons I will. If I cannot, I’ll take a second thought about my position.

            That people are different from one individual and one couple to another is never in doubt. But neither is it in doubt that in spite of those differences, human beings share something in common: human nature. As a result, even their differences have underlying similarities that explain them as a group or a kind. Because of this, subjective arguments like the one you keep trumpeting are not very reliable.

            When humans are cold, for example, they have an instinct to seek out warmth. When they are upset, they have an instinct to do something drastic. When they are afraid, they have an instinct to hide. How we individually respond to these various instincts helps explain our specific personality and character. The same is the case with pretty much everything else. This is why we have a legal system. It addresses the uniformity of our basic nature as human beings.

            Therefore, however many or different our circumstances, we tend toward the same things generally. This is why we tend to create customs and traditions that resonate across massive divides. Marriage, for instance, is quite a universal feature in cultures around the world. It was not brought to Africa by the West or taken to the West by the Orient, etc. It was a natural human response to a natural human need. We have perpetuated that tradition in thousands of cultures around the world without advice from each other because we are all human fundamentally.

            About the argument for celibacy, I think you should address my given arguments. I can’t afford to make them again. Ditto my arguments for the impossibility of sexual exploitation in marriage which you chose to address. It is not enough to simply tell me to swallow your speculations and pronouncements. Offer some reasons or proofs that I can consider.

            7+
          2. Snow
            Human nature is not the same for everyone. it’s like saying we all have eyes and sight so therefore, let’s keep the board at the same distance from every student in class, ignoring the condition of short or long-sightedness.

            Basic instinct may be to seek warmth or hide, but then how do we individually react to this instinct. is it enough that we acknowledge the instincts and unlook that reactions will vary for two different people.

            So while basic instincts may be to have sex or seek shelter or food, we all don’t satisfy these instincts the same way neither do we all react to these instincts at all.

            So No, we don’t all tend to the same things generally,
            Unless your statement that “the absence of celibacy is apt to result in a failure of a relationship much faster than the presence of it.” holds true for every human in this world, then it is not a fact neither does it remain. Because while the absence of celibacy is apt to result in a failure of a relationship much faster than the presence of it, the presence of celibacy is also apt to result in a failure of a relationship much faster than the absence of it. It depends on the people involved.

            3+
          3. Od
            Snow, I specifically said that it is the underlying similarities and proclivities that we address ourselves to when making general statements. Because while our eventual choices may be different, we all have more or less the same array initially.

            Using your “eyes” analogy, you place something at a distance that you expect that a human being should be able to see if they had NORMAL eyesight. Not every eyesight is the same but there is a NORMAL. The same thing with human nature. Some people will choose certain options and others will choose others. But in the end it is the SAME human nature that responds in one way or another.

            You cannot therefore insist on the absence of rules. They exist because definitions do. Because human nature can be defined, there can be fixed and reasonable expectations of people under various kinds of circumstances and therefore the possibility of the establishment of general rules.

            One such rule is this: people can become very cruel and deceptive and greedy when money is in play. Therefore, we invented contracts to make sure that business obligations are fulfilled both ways. That does not mean that every human being cheats and lies when they see money. It means that every human being can.

            The same way, because people are apt to be exploitative with respect to sex, the absence of celibacy in a human relationship is apt to destroy the relationship faster than its presence.

            5+
          4. Nnanyielugo
            Sorry, is OD pointedly ignoring the fact that sexual exploitation exists in marriage too.
            One would think that marriage is the cure all ointment for relationships and would fail to take cognizance of the fact that baser instincts in some humans induce them to use sex as a negotiating too, as well as a punitive instrument.
            If that is not exploitation, then I don’t know what is.
            Yes, celibacy makes it possible to better explore the personality of the proposed ‘significant other’ without the distraction of ‘wham bam, thank you ma’ am.’ But it also prevents knowing if the ‘other’ would weld sex as some negotiating tool. That is a personality disorder too, one that often needs actual experience to identify.
            Btw OD, in this profoundly imperfect world, ‘normal’ is an illusion.
            It does not exist.
            1+
          5. Od
            , first, I cannot take your word for the idea that “NORMAL” is an illusion. Why do you claim that it is? What makes it an illusion?

            Second, sexual exploitation is a situation where one party takes sexual advantage of another either by force or by fraud with no commensurate return or guarantee of emotional security. When you claim that people use sex as a bargaining chip in marriage or as a punitive measure to argue that marriage does not prevent sexual exploitation, you totally miss the point. By definition, marriage is a situation where both parties have the right to demand and receive sexual pleasure, among other things, from each other. As such, one’s sexual use of the other can never truly be exploitation. It is protected and mutual benefit is guaranteed.

            It is against the laws of marriage that one spouse should withhold any benefit that the marriage contract guarantees the other. Therefore, either party has the right to seek redress and demand that the other fulfill any duties they are shirking within reason. Whether or not they exercise this right is another matter altogether and does nothing to take away from the validity of this argument.

            2+
          6. Od
            , dude, I’ve actually been quite generous with you. It’s probably why when I say that you make ridiculous and absurd arguments you don’t seem to know why. “Normal as defined by who”? Is that a serious question even after I decided not to point out its absurdity the first time and addressed it like a legitimate question?

            How about nature? You’re big on that, right? I don’t remember when I last saw things that weren’t less than one foot away from me clearly. I started noticing strangeness in my eyes when I was 11. I realized I needed glasses by the time I was 13 or so. I’ve needed glasses since. There are people who can’t see things that are less than one foot away from their eyes. There are people with astigmatism, color blindness, corneal blindness, cataracts, wall eyes or glaucoma. And then there are those with vision that allows them to see colors and things both far and near and so on. These last are by far the largest in number. They help define what good, normal or ideal human vision is. Which is why science creates all manner of technologies to help those of us who can’t see that well.

            Normal is what is most consistent with the nature of a thing. It is absurd to imagine that normal does not exist because that would mean that nothing means anything and definitions are useless. Either things can be defined and understood or else communication is impossible. The absurdity of the latter is easily demonstrated: I’m talking to you right now and you can understand me. For that to be possible, there must be objective definitions that make my words meaningful to you in spite of what our differences from each other are.

            3+
          7. Od
            , lol. If marriage grants no rights, what is the point of those vows you made and the contract you signed?

            As for marital rape, I think that is still debatable. If you signed a contract that grants me rights to derive sexual pleasure from you without being denied except for exceptional reasons, how is it rape when I immobilize you and take my pleasure if you decided to hold out on me indefinitely for no exceptional reason?

            Personally, I don’t find sex enjoyable unless the woman I’m having it with is losing her mind with pleasure so I very likely wouldn’t ever try to take pleasure by force. If I can’t seduce my wife I’ll probably wait it out.

            But that is a personal choice because of my own peculiarities. The question is, “do I have a right to demand and receive sexual gratification from you when we’re married or do I not?” If I do and you’re holding out for no exceptional reason and I am capable of taking you against your will without inflicting any bodily harm on you, what makes it rape?

            1+
          8. Snow
            nobody is asking you to be generous. If you dont want to engage, then unlook, it’s not hard.
            And just because you dont comprehend the scope/perspective from which i make my case doesn’t make what i say ridiculous and absurd arguments.
            You have this habit of ascribing every argument or opinion that doesn’t fit with yours as antagonistic, illogical and absurd.

            News Flash, dude, the fluidity of what we see as true changes as with our perception of nature.

            What you basically said is that the majority defines what normal is. Definitely not Nature, because Nature has been consisten through the years but our idea of it has always been susceptible to change.

            Some females are fully developed physically and mentally even by age 13, so it should be consider natural to have sex with them. But we don’t because we dont see it as normal.
            Centuries ago, it was considered normal for the woman to mot work but stay home and look after the kids, and it considered not normal for her to work. Today is different.
            The black death was a perfectly natural response by nature to the overpopulation crisis in europe but people viewed it as not normal.
            Cancer is a perfectly natural concept, does it mean people accept it as normal?

            Dont try to use nature as a definition of normal. Nature isnt bound by that, it knows not good or bad, right or wrong, normal or abnormal.

            Every single thing we do, or accept, right or wrong, it’s all in our perception. It’s a human concept

            Nature just is nothing more. It’s we humans who adapt and evolve definitions and perceptions, and that is always subject to change.

            5+
          9. Od
            Actually you are, tacitly. If you make an argument and I answer it and you repeat it without accounting for my response then you are asking me to repeat myself. Of course I have the choice not to but that doesn’t mean that you didn’t ask. 🙂

            Actually, I do understand your argument. That’s why I could say it was absurd. If you claim that there is no normal then it means that there are no fixed definitions and everything and every experience is entirely subjective and wholly a matter of individual perception but if that is true communication would be impossible because individuals must subject their perceptions to an objective standard to be able to make sense of what each other is saying or doing. You can understand me. You are talking to me. That means that communication is possible. That renders your argument absurd. An absurd or ridiculous argument is one that refuses to account for reality as is. It pretends that what actually is the case is not. That’s what makes it ridiculous. So, when I call some arguments absurd or ridiculous it’s not me committing ad hominem. I’m not just being insulting or trying to get a rise out of those who make it. I am just calling things what they are.

            As for illogical, it is when conclusions in arguments don’t follow from their premises or premises contradict. Basically, it is when an argument just breaks the laws of logic. So you can always check to see if I call an argument illogical because it disagrees with me or because it doesn’t obey the laws of logic.

            These things are provable, you know. You don’t need to throw accusations around.

            About your responding argument…

            Perception is one thing, nature is another. The two don’t quite work together here. What you have said essentially is that normal is defined by humans whose perceptions continue to change so that what is normal today could be abnormal tomorrow. But that doesn’t work.

            Humans “observe” nature. They do not “define” it. They can affect it but that is by first accepting what it is independent of them. Which is why we keep learning about it to understand it for what it is rather than what we’d like it to be. Hence, science.

            About your objection to definition by majority: I believe you completely misunderstood and I’m inclined to think it was deliberate. I was speaking like someone who has some education in statistics. In statistics, we take samples to figure out whole populations. In every population, there are numerous characteristics but if we are to define a population we will use what characteristics are most common within it. Thus, definition by majority. If most human beings can see things that are as close to a quarter of a foot from their faces clearly and things as far as a yard from their faces the same, we say that that is the normal human eyesight and every other thing is a deviation or approximation to it. Thus the christening of different eye diseases or disorders. Myopia would not be called myopia if it was just human eyesight nor would we have anything like blindness. They would all be normal human sight or sightlessness. Statistics tells us to define the population by the majority. And that applies not just to humans but to trees, bears and goats among other things.

            Thus, normal is what is most consistent with the nature of a thing.

            Much of everything else you said is about social mores which are essentially how we respond to our evolving understanding of nature. I can see how that argument can be attractive. Our social mores are our normal behavior toward things but that understanding of “normal” is not accounting for what I said about normal being what is most consistent with the nature of a thing. Our normal response to things is advised by our understanding of them which understanding is subject to change. But normal is more than just about our understanding, it is also about the things we are trying to understand one of which is human nature which was the subject of our discussion.

            There is something normal to human nature regardless what we understand about it. As our understanding of that thing develops our behavior toward and about it will change. But the thing itself is what it is independent of our understanding.

            This is what I was talking about initially. Human beings by nature are exploitative about sex among other things. For that reason, sexual relationships not protected by law like marriage is are apt to fall apart sooner than celibate ones, all other things being equal.

            1+
          10. Snow
            Actually you do not understand my what i am saying
            Your need to type an entire post clearly shows that

            I do not reject your definition by majority. I am merely saying “what constitutes that majority’ is subject to change.

            i am also saying, Natural is not the same thing as Normal. Neither is Normal the same thing as Natural. (I could drum up an entire posts with reference to history as to why they are different)

            Normal is what is most consistent with the majority’s understanding of the nature of a thing. And Understanding relies heavily with the collection of data, (something that isn’t always absolute in its accuracy and completeness)

            An example would be Corpernicus’ formulation of a universal model of the Sun being at the center and not the earth, even though majority of earth’s population deemed otherwise.

            But a better analogy would be this link

            http://homebirthdebate.blogspot.com.ng/2008/01/whats-difference-between-natural-and.html

            1+
          11. Od
            How does the length of my response demonstrate a failure in comprehension of your argument?

            You’re saying that the characteristics most common to a species or population is subject to change?

            “Normal is what is most consistent with the majority’s understanding of the nature of a thing.”

            Right here, in the above, is where your problem in our discussion is. I made it clear that “normal” doesn’t just mean what the majority understands. That is “social mores”. As far as normal goes, it is the normal RESPONSE of a group of people to a reality at a point in the development of the group’s history. As I said, that is subject to change. But what I meant by “normal is what is most consistent with the nature of a thing” is this: what is normal to a group, whether the human species or the oak species or the termite species, is what characteristics are most commonly found among members of their species. That “normal” is unaffected by anybody’s understanding. It is utterly objective, not subjective and it does not change except the very nature of the species were to change. Your link agrees. If 1% of pregnancies end in death of the baby or the mother and 20% end in miscarriages, neither is the common experience of pregnancy, therefore neither is normal to a human pregnancy. (It would take another long response to show you how that post is consistent with what I have said about normal and natural but I won’t write one. I have said quite enough already.)

            I have just repeated myself, Snow…again. I don’t plan to do it again. What you did was tell me: “I did not disagree that what is normal to a species is defined by the characteristics that are found in the majority of its members. I’m only saying that what is normal to a species is defined by what the majority of people think is consistent with its nature.”

            Yes, understanding develops, as your Copernicus argument unnecessarily proves. I already said as much but it has nothing to do with what is normal to a thing. Whether we understand it or not, human nature predisposes human beings to exploitative sexual behavior. It doesn’t predisposes one or two human beings but the vast majority of us. You don’t have to look far to see proof. You’ll often find people saying that they were used for their bodies by people who did not care about them or their emotions. You’ll see complaints about people who got up and left after forging strong emotional bonds through sex because someone else appealed better to them sexually. It’s rife in our music and lore. It fills posts right here on TNC. It’s the elephant in the room in this discussion. It’s weird that I should need to spell it out.

            Fact is, it’s normal to humans to take advantage of each other when they want something but don’t want to lose anything for it. That is due to their human nature. That there are seven billion of us does not invalidate the argument. You would have to prove that human beings in general do not tend toward exploitative behavior to succeed at proving me wrong. I’m very sure that you cannot. Remember that I am not arguing that humans always yield to the impulse to exploit others for their own selfish benefit, my argument is that the impulse exists in all humans. If you can prove that it doesn’t exist at all, that the impulse to exploit others for selfish benefit does not exist in some people, I will listen to you.

            Because of the existence of that impulse, I argue that celibacy guarantees the survival of a relationship far better than its absence all other things being equal. This is what you have to disprove. You have obfuscated the argument and muddied the waters a lot but you haven’t disproved it. If you can’t, maybe you should just leave it alone. If you wouldn’t rather admit to defeat, that is. But if you can, get on with it.

            2+
          1. H.B
            He/she can write, but not in a good way, if you have to type that much to prove a point then you can’t blow as a writer…i mean ur books will just be big for nothing and ure conveying a five line message..(no hate, just saying my own)I cant even read this OD’s story biko, I do not like people that generalize, it’s annoying, makes playing devil’s advocate hard sef..
            0
          2. Od
            It’s weird that you assume that I’m not a writer, .B, lol. Anyway, I’m not, not professionally. However, that was by choice not for lack of skill.

            Writing skill is not defined by length. I am very skilled at shrinking lengthy dispositions into single sentences but what good does it do when you want to debate a point with clearly defined arguments? When you debate, length can be a better friend than brevity.

            Your reasons for knocking my skill are clearly emotional. My posts are too long (you either don’t have the time to read them or you’re too lazy to) and I generalize (you don’t like generalizations because you think that they don’t allow you to play devil’s advocate). None of this has to do with whether I succeed at communicating my ideas clearly to you. Success at writing is defined by success at communication.

            I write the way I do deliberately and I have faced down criticism for it before. If you think my writing tedious, wait till you start reading books hundreds of pages long dealing on single specific subjects in philosophy or some science. 🙂

            4+
      2. anonymous aboki
        “..Besides, its so available these days that you can play your celibacy to one person and getting it from another anonymous person..”

        That’s a thought I share Od, with a commenter above. Also, think it’s what Nosa may be driving at.

        Me know several successful relationships were one party is practising celibacy joyfully, the other is doing the do secretly and they’re heading for the altar (lol, i’m sorry) happily.

        In fact, I know people who wouldn’t do the do with their partners sef, basically holding ’em to some kain twisted celibacy without their knowledge, doing the down & dirty outside. Again, some kain twisted Madonna/Whore complex.

        PS. I owe you my man, coming through

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        1. Od
          Hello bro, it’s been a while. I know, but don’t stress it. Take your time. 🙂

          I know about such things. But they don’t quite help me understand Snow’s objection. Celibacy between a couple, by definition, does not account for cheating. If one is cheating then they are not being celibate. They’re just cheating and THAT can ruin a relationship just as fast as illicit sex between the partners, maybe even faster.

          4+
    2. thetoolsman Post author
      Err.. I must also say that if your reason for pushing the celibacy agenda is the one you gave in your last paragraph then I disagree. Maybe stick to God/Christianity/the bible? or perhaps try again?
      1+
      1. Od
        I think disagreement is allowed. I wasn’t quite aiming to get you to agree to anything. Just sharing what I know. If it appeals to you, awesome. If it doesn’t, how sad. But unless you want to engage and share what you think is wrong with it, there’s no reason for me to change anything I said.
        3+
        1. thetoolsman Post author
          Oh but of course disagreement is allowed but just for the sake of clarity. Doesn’t your comment suggest that sex within the confines of marriage cannot be exploitative?
          1+
          1. Od
            Marriage by definition grants both spouses exclusive rights to each others sexual resources, at least, insofar as the exercise of such rights does not cause harm to either party. If it does grant such rights, then sex in marriage can’t really be exploitative.
            2+
          2. thetoolsman Post author
            Oral sex isn’t harmful in anyway (at least as far as I know).. doesn’t mean all married people who want it, get it from their spouses. So tell me again how sex in marriage can’t really be exploitative.
            1+
          3. Od
            I’m not sure how denying your spouse oral sex is exploiting them sexually or wanting it and not getting it is that either.

            Marriage grants rights. It does not prescribe how and whether those rights are exercised. One spouse can choose not to exercise his or her rights to oral sex if they prefer for whatever reason they please. It is up to the two of them to work out what benefits and satisfies them mutually. But the rights are unquestionable. When one chooses to exercise them and the other refuses, the one making demands has a right to press their case before any authority that has jurisdiction over disputes in their marriage.

            2+
          4. Snow
            “When one chooses to exercise them and the other refuses, the one making demands has a right to press their case before any authority that has jurisdiction over disputes in their marriage.”

            I’m sorry, how exactly does this work. Marriage doesn’t grant anybody any “rights” to another person’s sexual “resources”. Your statement saying such is the ultimate form of psychological objectification, “sexual resources”

            If i want to have sex with my wife and she tells me “No”, i will take my dick and put it in my pocket. I will not go to any authority to ask for my “exclusive RIGHTS to another human’s SEXUAL RESOURCES” to be granted.

            Just as you think you now have rights to someone’s sexual resources because you put a ring on it, she also has the right to say NO, an then your only right is to try to talk it out or keep your sexual resource in your pocket

            You don’t have any rights to anybody’s sexual organs, they are not properties

            10+
          5. Od
            Lol. Ok.

            How do you define marriage then? It’s a world where everyone decides what definition they like and go with on everything so I assume your rejection of the definition I have always known marriage for must mean that you have an alternative that you prefer to work with. I’m willing to hear it.

            0
          6. Chiebuka
            Marriage doesn’t grant anybody exclusive sexual rights to their spouse. If I’m married to you and I don’t feel like getting down, you, or any “suitable authority” cannot make me. Or how do you think marital rape starts?
            3+
          7. Od
            , lol. If marriage grants no rights, what is the point of those vows you made and the contract you signed?

            As for marital rape, I think that is still debatable. If you signed a contract that grants me rights to derive sexual pleasure from you without being denied except for exceptional reasons, how is it rape when I immobilize you and take my pleasure if you decided to hold out on me indefinitely for no exceptional reason?

            Personally, I don’t find sex enjoyable unless the woman I’m having it with is losing her mind with pleasure so I very likely wouldn’t ever try to take pleasure by force. If I can’t seduce my wife I’ll probably wait it out.

            But that is a personal choice because of my own peculiarities. The question is, “do I have a right to demand and receive sexual gratification from you when we’re married or do I not?” If I do and you’re holding out for no exceptional reason and I am capable of taking you against your will without inflicting any bodily harm on you, what makes it rape?

            0
        2. K. Rukia
          “If I do and you’re holding out for no exceptional reason and I am capable of taking you against your will without inflicting any bodily harm on you, what makes it rape?”

          Key words: “against your will”

          Absence of consent makes it rape. Whether within or outside marriage.

          2+
          1. Od
            I wanted to do a little research for this discussion to confirm the universality of the rights and obligations conferred by the marriage contract or agreement but I couldn’t do something comprehensive because it would involve selecting and comparing different and significantly representative samples of legal codes for their provisions regarding marriage and drawing out their similarities to one another in that regard to establish universality of principle. So I did the second-best thing instead: I found one example of such a legal code to help explain a crucial pillar of the line of inquiry that I was pursuing.

            In this link – http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m087.htm – you will see an example of marriage laws. It shows that the marriage agreement or contract grants certain rights and obligations from one jurisdiction to another. If in a particular legal code the marriage contract grants both spouses sexual rights that mean that, unless it is harmful to one or the other, both are entitled to sex with each other, then by speaking the vows and signing the contract or indicating in some accepted way that you consent ab initio to the agreement, you have also provided a blanket consent to sexual propositioning within the marriage thereafter.

            In simple English, Rukia, that means that by marrying your spouse, you already consented to sex with him or her from the beginning and signed away your right to say no if he or she demands it. If that is the case and you do go on to say no thereafter, you are violating the terms of the contract and your objection is invalid. Your husband or wife has a right to have sex with you when they want it unless doing so causes you harm in some way.

            People choose not to exercise that right sometimes because sex is an emotional affair and marriage is an emotional relationship. They would rather you actually want to have sex with them as much as they do with you so they don’t like to force it. But refusing unless it is for health reasons is an abuse of your spouse’s willingness to accommodate you.

            I’ll repeat it: if the marriage legal code in one jurisdiction says different, then the rights available there may differ. But once we decide to make it a universal issue, that is, what is right and wrong within marriage as a general rule and what one or every legal code should really be saying about marriage, then we are talking beyond legal codes and addressing philosophy which means an examination of worldviews. In that case, I’ll pull out my Christianity and pit it against your atheism to see which makes more sense and is more consistent with reality. 🙂

            0
  6. Decorousmoi
    Celibacy is a commendable thing but both parties have to be on the same page if not its just plain selfish….celibacy doesnt mean God will make it lead to marriage as a reward, nahhhh!

    All those who really think its what led to the engagement i can see your point but its quite laughable. Im pro celibacy but it doesn’t guarantee a happily ever after for everyone.

    3+
  7. U2
    You went and commented first? Sly move?
    The only thing I don’t seem to agree totally with is the part where you said sex is a Major major kini in a relationship. It is a bit contradictory with your piece. Especially after saying that some people break up because they choose to be celibate. And some people break up because they can’t afford to not be celibate…
    0
    1. thetoolsman Post author
      Nope, not contradictory. Sex is a major part of every relationship – whether you are having it or not. Perhaps the confusion is that you think I meant that you should have it. Even when you’re celibate you still talk about sex, you’re placed in awkward positions where you have to think about sex and your reluctance to address it together as a couple can easily bring your relationship to an end hence its importance.
      1+
  8. Kiki
    Nice post.. Well i personally don’t know what happened in Ciara’s relationship but i’m so happy for her. I am currently engaged and i although we both agreed to remain celibate, i initially sort of instigated okay. Some may think i’m crazy but trust me i know what i’m doing. My fiance is a strong Christian so i knew he could very well cope..He’s been in other relationship where things went down. Truth is, we kiss & cuddle once in a while but that’s as far as it gets.

    In my opinion, do whatever is best for both of you, most importantly communication is key. I talk to my Fiance about everything, even sex, sex possible crazy positions, my family, my past, everything. He does same too. We are open &have learnt to accommodate each other. Where i am weak he’s strong & vice-versa. Also want to add, that prior to this time, i dated ‘my learned friend’ who was ready to marry me IF he can implant ‘mini mee’ in me.. that’s story for another day, but thank God he didn’t even get to see my panties..I left him without explanation.
    Anyways, for some Celibacy may get them the ring (some guys honestly prefer to not have sex with their future wife)for others they feel the need to know if they will be compatible before hand, more like test drive if u ask me.. everyone’s case is diff. Just pray, follow your heart & open ur eyes.

    11+
    1. Larz
      Celibacy is not enough to get people married.

      However, I do believe for those who are comparible and decide marriage is where they are heading, marriage is likely to happen sooner for them. For example, in a non celibate relationship, it might take 3-5yrs to get married but in a celibate one, less than 2 years. Also, I noticed lots of people in a celibate relationship (apart from spirikoko people- by spirikoko I mean ppl that are so spiritual that even thinking/ talking about sex is a taboo) talk about sex more than some in a sexual relationship

      0
  9. Lipglossmaffia
    I totally agree with you. Their communication and trust must be top notch and I think these are factors that relationships these days need to work on. The amount of divorces I’m hearing about now, is heartbreaking.
    1+
  10. Niyoola
    “Even in marriage, if you have a wife in the late stages of pregnancy and doctors advice you to stay away from sex, you still need to talk about it together.”

    Lol……. ain’t no discussion. Before doctor thinks of advising, I’ve put unquestionable embargo.

    3+
      1. Niyoola
        Big tummy
        Awkward
        No sex drive
        Big tummy
        Not feeling sexy
        Big tummy
        Sex triggers contractions/braxton hicks
        Big tummy
        Hated ‘spooning sex’
        Big tummy
        4+
        1. Katniss
          Hahaha the big tummy references. Orgasms are sha the best Kegels and it’s mostly the prostaglandins in semen that could trigger contractions so rubbers. I hope I have a thriving sex drive during pregnancy tho. Cos after delivery is a whole new chapter of crying babies and erratic sleep patterns and it’ll take a while to get the hang
          0
          1. Niyoola
            Infact, orgasms trigger contractions a lot.
            When I wa preggie ehn, I used to have WILD dreams…….. even when I was off sex, my dreams were crazy. I’d have like 4 orgasms back to back (if I were religious ehn, I’d say I had a spirit husband). Used to annoy my husband, bcos he wasn’t getting some, but I was getting it in my sleep!

            Anyway, I’d wake up after an Orgasm with crazy contractions. 1st time I had it, thot I was in premature labour.

            Hormones just mess you up. Some people have increased sex drive, some don’t, some have sex just because……. and in all o this, hope ur husband isn’t ‘scared’ of sexing you. Some guys just can’t do it. Hahaha

            1+
          1. Niyoola
            Yeah. Spooning and doggie are the most common sex positions. Girl on top is possible if madam is up for it.
            I wasn’t up for anything. I didn’t even want a kiss, yup…… I was that bad.
            I had sex 40 weeks so I could maybe kick start labour, not because I wanted to.
            1+
          2. thetoolsman Post author
            haha.. so you’re one of those women who “used” their husbands.. From what I’ve heard, it seems most Nigerian women make pregnancy so cruel for guys – especially those who naturally have a lower sex drive than their husbands. They take it as their opportunity to go on vacation only for them to remember you when baby decides to stay past EDD. Once we have a larger community of parents here, I think we need to have these conversations. So much to say.
            0
          3. Niyoola
            See its hard to explain. I was cool with sex till I hit 3rd trimester. Until you’ve been there ehn, it can’t be explained. Infact, husband was worried about me being quite active in my 2nd semester; it was fun! Then that phase just ended…..
            Whenever you the the post on ‘pregnant sex’…… if I don’t like it or feel you are picking on us, I’m coming for youu!!!!!!!!!
            0
          4. Niyoola
            I’m not a good writer 🙁
            I can work on that though, so I can earn some Cool TNC cash.
            B)
            0
  11. Niyoola
    OK, to the post. If a couple choose to be celibate, it’s all good. As long as both of you agree to it.
    Your friend didn’t want to be celibate, she just went along with it because she didn’t want to lose the guy, so obviously she got frustrated later.
    If both are committed to celibacy, it’s fantastic. The anticipation of wanting sex with your fantastic partner may also hasten the marriage process (this may have a good or bad outcome, but so with all other reasons you get married)

    Either way, it may or may not play a part….. but celibacy is very cool (Toolsman, you are just a slut).

    I also know a married couple – started as a one night stand. And they are doing fab.

    Sex or the lack of it is one of many variables …. it’s not everything.

    To correct someone up there, celibacy is not always about religion.

    4+
    1. thetoolsman Post author
      hahaha.. but but I’m all team celibacy here why did you have to single me out as a slut. -__-

      Anyways, Im glad you mentioned two things in particular:
      1. Fact that celibacy sometimes hastens the marriage process and this can go either way.
      2. The married couple that started as a one night stand. – I know several and this just proves that there’s not just one way to happiness in marriage.

      0
  12. Orlaarmy
    I agree that celibacy is not a basis for strong relationship, however, it also help speed up the process. Just anticipating the whole sex thing together can make the adrenalin rush so fast that the process is hastened.

    Buh i think there are more important factors that earned her the ring than celibacy. It tipped the scale in her favor though

    0
    1. Snow
      If the anticipation and adrenaline rush of prospective sex is the reason why the marriage process is hastened, then i believe something somewhere is wrong
      5+
  13. Priscilla Joy
    I also think the “speeding up the process” angle that celibacy brings to relationships is one kind, it can turn out good or very very bad. I am team celibacy because I believe that it gives room for other important aspects of the relationship to be explored and it actually helps build a stronger bond between two people than when sex is involved. But whichever one exists, communication, honesty, and openness is key and the couple should be willing to revisit the issue from time to time.

    I also don’t think that celibacy is the reason she got the ring, there are more important elements that make for a strong relationship and even stronger marriage that sex is just one part of it, communication, trust, shared values, shared goals, vision, strong foundation, friendship, etc. There’s a whole lot that makes up a relationship between two people but sadly we make sex into this big issue on the side of those who wants to have it and the ones who wants to stay away from it that it overshadows every other thing. But some people can be sneaky sha, they could care less what the other thinks or feels but just want what they want and the sex can quickly become exploitative in which case I wonder where the enjoyment, beauty and fun of the sex comes from. I’m very happy for her and hope it works out and lasts a lifetime or the world will have a field day should it end negatively even though it’s nobody’s business .

    Communication, honesty, trust, substance and depth over instant gratification any day.

    1+
  14. Butterflymind
    So much sex talk *sighs*
    I’ll just say I love that CiCi is GLOWING. You get that glow when you’re in the right place with the right person at the right time. And whatever it was that led them to this point, I can only hope it keeps them together 🙂

    P.S Why isn’t there a TNC app for the Windows phone? I’m upset.

    0
  15. Tip
    Personally, I don’t support the idea that celibacy in a relationship should be automatically commendable. People take decisions for various reasons (good & bad), so I wouldn’t be quick to commend anyone for decisions taken in their relationship.

    People also think Celibacy automatically makes the couple bond in a more sincere manner, this isn’t true. Sex (no sex) is only a part of a relationship, there are bigger factors that makes a couple stick together.

    1+
    1. K. Rukia
      Agreed. On the other hand, celibacy is a very difficult thing, regardless of the reason, so it makes sense that people would automatically commend the effort.
      1+
  16. titolu
    I believe celibacy in relationships is a matter of personal decision, and total conviction.
    Aint nobody can force anybody to be celibate.
    You can only stick to that decision because you are convinced to do so.
    To me, doing the celibate solely for a reward of the rings sounds kinda ………ehmmm……
    I choose to do the ‘Zip up’ before the ‘I do’ because I want to please my Lord.
    And for me, even if celibacy doesn’t promise to bring me the ring, while ‘doing the do’ offers me a lil cute diamond sweetheart ring,(*eyelashes*….lol), I still would choose to be celibate before the ‘I Do’.
    Cos m’ totally persuaded to please my Lord.
    4+
  17. Tee
    when people say ” we are being celibate” does it mean no make out sessions and no sex or make out sessions without sex? I’m just curious..there are some steamy “cuddling sessions” that feels better than sex so are we still celibate? someone explain please.
    0
  18. K. Rukia
    K. Rukia likes this post, but K. Rukia would like to point out that a wedding ring/marriage proposal is not a prize to be earned. K. Rukia will leave it there because the matter deserves an entire post to itself.
    3+
  19. aisha
    I think only the two people in the relationship can say if it’s celibate or not, the rest of us do not know.

    About the celibacy thing, I think that’s the same problem a lot of guys face, the girl just says she wants to stay celibate and he has no input and has to accept it. And in truth any form of rules or boundaries set without both parties in agreement can be frustrating.

    0
  20. Ibiela
    Hmmm… I can’t even try to give an opinion on relationships. Communication, honesty, celibacy blablabla all sound like good advice but they don’t guarantee that it will work out. I’m a lone ranger now. Can’t even waste my time thinking about relationships.
    1+
  21. Ray
    Lol I don’t even care why she got the ring, I just hope they are happy and stay happy.
    On the other hand, anyone who marries another solely because they kept a celibacy vow is a retard.
    1+
  22. Olayinka
    I don’t know how anyone thinks celibacy adds more value to a relationship. A lot of people are celibate not because they happily chose to be. Impressions are the foundation of the decision for a lot of folks. Oh.. I want to please my lord. Oh.. I don’t want to look cheap. Oh.. I think virginity is the best gift I can give my spouse on our wedding day.. and the likes. Just think about all the reasons you’re being celibate. They are all based on impressions that people will have of you.
    The real question is if we all agree that celibacy WILL NOT guarantee anything, why is it being extolled so much? The decision to be sexually active should also be commended too. It takes a lot of guts to break loose of societal inhibitions on people’s sex lives and truly enjoy the fuck out of sex as soon as you can psychologically make that decision. One thing we all agree about is that SEX IS BEAUTIFUL. So please let’s stop pretending about the merit of celibacy. It has none. Enjoy life
    6+
    1. Od
      Ok, I think I’ll quit some of my famous generosity, biko. This is an outright lie. Either that or it is evidence of a comprehension problem. Did I promote marital rape or ask to have it defined? Read what I wrote and explain how that was promotion rather than inquiry.
      1+
      1. K. Rukia
        You probably should read your comments again.
        You said:
        “If we signed a contract that grants me rights to derive sexual pleasure from you without being denied except for exceptional reasons, how is it rape when I immobilize you and take my pleasure if you decided to hold out on me indefinitely for no exceptional reason?”

        Sounded like a rhetorical question to me, i.e. you were just stating your position in the form of a question. Especially in light of this earlier comment:
        “Marriage by definition grants both spouses exclusive rights to each others sexual resources, at least, insofar as the exercise of such rights does not cause harm to either party. If it does grant such rights, then sex in marriage can’t really be exploitative.”

        But if you claim it’s just inquiry, biko inquire away.

        2+
        1. Od
          Wow! Rukia, so, now, you get to decide too when a person’s question is rhetorical and when it isn’t? It’s no longer up to people to decide whether they’re asking questions and making statements?

          Second, even if the question was rhetorical, by the fact that I stated it, you could prove that the argument it held was wrong by answering it. So, what you’re doing here is essentially making excuses rather than either addressing the errors in the argument assuming it was one or admitting that you cannot counter/answer it.

          Third, my position. I stated two. One was that marriage grants exclusive sexual rights to the couple. I have seen no arguments to the contrary from you. And now you think you can use that to somehow prove that I’m advocating marital rape, a concept which you have not even deigned to explain. The second was that personally, I prefer mutuality in sexual pleasure so I would not force sex if it was denied me. There’d be no pleasure in it for me that way. So, why did you pick one to trumpet that I promote marital rape, a concept which you still have not defined, rather than the other or, better still, why didn’t you take both positions into consideration in your own claims? Is it perhaps because it wouldn’t help you promote the image of me you’d like to sell?

          1+
          1. K. Rukia
            I didn’t decide anything; I simply shared how I perceived what you said; my perception was that you are in support of what I (and most other rational people) would define as marital rape.

            If you’re looking for someone to debate whether marriage grants someone the right to his/her spouse’s body, it’s not going to be me. Ain’t got time for you today and Chiebuka is already doing a great job anyway.

            0
    2. anonymous aboki
      Wow, just wow!

      Why would you make such a comment, & then you put this ‘sigh’ after, like you’re exasperated abi feeling pity; I don’t understand.

      I’ll admit Od was towing a thin line (which is pretty common on here), but there was a line, & at no point did he cross it to advocate marital rape! You however may have succeeded in making folks (start to) think he did.

      I mean, this is just incredibly sad man. You know the guy (on TNC at least), have an idea of his basic ideals and principles, saw the context in which he was arguing, yet, promoting marital rape?!

      Even if we started calling everyone here cheats, babykillers, polyamorous sluts, plain stupid, husband snatcher, it wouldn’t be right, neither would it hold a candle to your innocent question. Yet, all the above had at least 500 worded posts confessing or asserting these positions.

      You need to chill abeg. Seriously. Your whatever is showing.

      4+
      1. K. Rukia
        Oga Anonymous, would you calm down? Why are you so upset?

        What you’re describing is calling people names. You can say what you like, but I clearly didn’t call Od a rapist, I just made an observation. The observation being that:
        1. He is of the opinion that married people have a right to each other’s bodies.
        2. This happens to be the major premise used to defend marital rape.

        Therefore it would appear that he is in support of marital rape. Whether or not he would do it himself is a different question.

        0
  23. anonymous aboki
    Rape is pretty sensitive/serious.

    You’re splitting hairs.

    This clarification you were seeking, least you could have done was ask Od directly, instead of just putting it out there.

    Logical observation, or not. I’ll be upset on your behalf, or anyone else for that matter, if I perceived someone coming at you 1 kain.

    2+
    1. K. Rukia
      Ok Aboki, we are both entitled to our opinions, and mine is that Od is in support of marital rape. If you think I’m ‘coming at him’, feel free to stan.
      0
      1. Butterflymind
        that’s not exactly an opinion if you’re deliberately ignoring all the explanations he’s given to communicate his argument (however unclear they might be.)

        And that word is disgusting btw, so e haf do nne biko 🙂
        Oya come and chop small kiss on ya nose.

        1+
        1. Od
          Aboki, thank you for sticking up for me, bro. That was really kind of you. You too, . Come and chop kiss on your own nose too (better at it than you are, I’ll bet 😀 ).

          , it’s a risk to stick up for someone especially when their arguments go against popular culture. And, as you both said, rape is extremely sensitive and my arguments about it can be a little difficult to understand or, as Aboki put it, I’m toeing a dangerous line. So, let me give you two a short explanation of what I’m saying.

          Rape is taking sexual pleasure with someone without their consent. That is its definition and it holds true. But when you enter a sexual relationship with someone where you have consented from the beginning, by some approved method for indicating consent, to any and all sexual propositioning for the duration of that relationship, you can no longer deny consent when you are propositioned sexually by your partner. That would violate your initial agreement and amount to a breach of contract. By this argument, I can demand to have “marital rape” defined for me because the term makes no sense. If rape is taking sexual pleasure without consent and you have already given blanket consent for all sexual propositioning that doesn’t endanger you your life and health in anyway by marrying your partner, how can there be such a thing as marital rape? That is why I kept asking to have the concept explained. I honestly don’t know what . Rukia and the others mean by it and I believe that they might not either.

          The sensitivity of this is that some people can use marriage as an excuse to bully and harm their partner. But in a particular set of marriage vows, one of the agreements that the partners enter into is that they will cherish, protect and love each other till death dissolves their partnership so if taking sexual pleasure by force (even if by right) will cause your partner harm, you too would be breaking the terms of your marriage. That would also be wrong. So, the best thing is to address why one is not inclined to have sex with the other, talk about it and try to find a compromise that works for everybody.

          I hope that I have not broken your trust or embarrassed you with my arguments. It was quite a risk to stand up for me so I want you to know that I appreciate it and that it was for something worth standing up for.

          1+
  24. Candy yumyum
    Why do you keep talking about sex in marriage or relationship as though its a right, contract, igbada kan bla bla bla.

    “But when you enter a sexual relationship with someone where you have consented from the beginning, by some (approved method for indicating consent), to any and all sexual propositioning for the duration of that relationship, you can no longer deny consent when you are propositioned sexually by your partner. That would violate your initial agreement and amount to a breach of contract.”

    I’m irked biko. My first, yea we were celibate for about 9 months into the relationship and the sex was shitty ever since..I wouldn’t even say the first time was rape, we were in a relationship right? but it just happened one day and he carried his kangara and left.. yes it was consentual afterwards, I mean, what is there to celibate over again? And anytime we had a fight and i start talking about break up, next thing i know he’s shoving me on the bed roughly and we’re having sex and of course i’ll forgive..i remember the last argument we had and i still broke up with him after the sex/rape..he was so pained..don’t ask me why the relationship lasted for 2 years. I was 16. But it still haunts me..

    “hey, we’re breaking up”
    “No we cant” shows up at my hostel just in case we had the argument outside of it..we are having sex..

    Please , was that rape? or ive lost all my right to my private parts by agreeing to be his ghefriend? or that only applies to people bound by a law court? or if it was rape before, if we get married as we were like that, it suddenly stops being rape?

    I’m not arguing, i just need you to clarify..short sentences please?

    0
  25. Steel

    Woow. So much has been said, refuted, objected against and agreed upon. I’ve been so educated, I never believed Naija still got this sort of talents in the offin with people arguing senselessly when ever one attempts at making valid contributions to conversations, which has become such a norm in our society, as ignorance has become so permissible and accepted as the “who we are!” and you can’t know all, or know what you need and not be a practitioner of some sort, forgetting that versatility is also a need in every individual.

    , oga am so impressed at the way you held your ground without even having to open the hallowed book (omo school good o).

    as for you and others feeling that He is consenting to marital rape, your reasoning is extremely fallacious than appropriate and that’s not commendable. He actually explained his position as it truely is without adding anything to juice it up to please anyone, cos there is truth and there is a concept called “absolute truth.” Truth is relative, how? When you feel that unbriddled approach for sex without breaching the essence of the agreements of marriage is rape, that’s true to you cos matter of fact you do not agree nor take to the fact that someone can actually own your body in the name of being your spouse. Absolute truth is he actually owns it as far he doesn’t cos harm in anyway to your person or any other extreme discomfort. I said “extreme” simply cos you’re not in the mood and his rumping your hump in your “NO” mood is actually disconcerting, yet it gets extreme if he actually gets out of his way to not just ignore your feelings and go on coming at you that way as if there is no room for seduction all in the name of marriage, and then inflicts harm intentionally or otherwise.

    Basically, when two people get into that institution called marriage, no one can lay claim to his/her assets (bodies), they both own all their investments, it becomes a joint venture where each partner can help themselves with the proceeds, maybe sometimes at the expense of the partner (though this ain’t applicable in commerce, but in school of marriage and the sex dept., it’s no holds barred).

    The reason why peeps today can say no one can just get up and have access to a spouses body at will is due to the rate of abuse accompanying some isolated cases which the rule of law had to come to play as being the only decider on how they run the affair.

    Celibacy for one is a good thing for those that know it’s importance, but for those that don’t, do your thing, somehow those who’ll end up together will, and those who won’t will have to sort themselves out in due time. After all celibacy is not what will make the marriage work if the relationship before hand ends up that direction, it takes a whole lotta work other than putting a leash on that thingy. Just that it has a reputation of building trust among spouses if they succeeded in tying the know after taking that pricipled route to the aisle. I value it myself and am glad I have someone who does to, I only pray she won’t be frigid tomorrow when we seal the deal and say “I do!” Fears aside, celibacy is basically a blessing for those who can work with it. I can, and have lost someone special once due to it. She’d been in a relationship hoping to end up in marriage and they’d been having it like rabbits who come in on heat at anytime, and here I am keeping myself for nine whole years meeting her couple of months after her breaking up a four year sexually active relationship, and having sex a couple of times then remembering we oughta be clean before we do the real thing. She agreed at first, then out of the blue came the tantrums. I had to end the relationship cos I understood her itch, so I let her go scratch well. She oughta be willing to hang in there, but since she can’t abeg Ghana must go!

    And please do permit me to add that in some marriages sexual exploitation prevails. And good reason is due to the knowledge base of either or both members of the union, especially in when the marriage was not founded on the right set of values.

    altogether agreat write up. Good job boss!

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