First off, rape is a reprehensible criminal act for which there can never be a justification whatsoever, but what really is rape? Too often we refuse to ask as it is sometimes misconstrued as blaming the victim. I’m hoping that by looking at rape from a legal cum social/moral point of view will help us better understand the subject matter. The principal legislation dealing with rape in Nigeria is the Penal Code Law in the Northern part of Nigeria, the Criminal Code Law in the Southern part of Nigeria and the Criminal Act in the Federal Capital Territory. For the sake of our discussion here today, we will focus our discussion on the Criminal code.

The Criminal Code explains the concept of rape in section 357 and states thus: any person who has unlawful carnal knowledge of any woman or girl, without her consent or with her consent if the consent was obtained by force or by means of threats or intimidation of any kind or by fear of harm or by means of false or fraudulent representation as to the nature of the act, or in the case of a married woman, by impersonating her husband, is guilty of is guilty of an offence which is called rape. (emphasis mine)

The definition as of rape as given above has several elements which, in law, is referred to as elements of the offense and when a particular scenario lacks these elements, the offense of rape cannot be said to have been committed. They are:

Unlawful: the law insists that for a person to be accused of rape, the sex/carnal knowledge must have been unlawful. So that, where it can be established that the sex was lawful, it would not matter in the eyes of the law whether or not the other elements of the offense of rape is contained in the tale of the alleged victim of the rape.

Although it has not been formally argued in any court in Nigeria, it would appear that marriage creates an exception to the general rule of rape. Marriage creates an institution, a legally binding relationship between spouses, into which the law would not ordinarily go behind to enquire how the respective individuals within the institution choose to live their lives except in dire circumstances.

Sex is an integral part of this institution and any sexual activity that occurs between spouses is deemed legal and as such, a man cannot, under Nigerian law, be guilty of raping a woman to whom he is legally married. If however he procures the services of someone else to rape his wife, he will in that case be guilty of rape.

Carnal Knowledge: The is second element of the offence of rape. Carnal knowledge simplicita is sex with penetration. And legally speaking, carnal knowledge is complete immediately the glans penis touches the vulva, it need not even penetrate the outer opening of the vagina. ( I guess the same should apply for anal rape as the law did not originally anticipate anal sex as a thing due to the fact that anal sex is in itself an offence called sodomy.)

Woman or Girl: The fact that the law expressly uses the term woman or girl in defining the offence of rape automatically excludes the male gender from the category of persons capable of being raped. This is more so when the definition of penetration given above is taken into consideration. As such a male claiming to have been raped will seek remedy through other provisions of the law.

Consent: This is the final and most controversial element in the definition of rape. This is because it is not always clear cut except in situations where violence, threats or intimidation is used. One must ask: Can consent once granted be revoked? If yes, at what point can it be revoked? Is there a point of no return? The wording of the law reads thus:

“…without her consent or with her consent if the consent was obtained by force or by means of threats or intimidation of any kind or by fear of harm or by means of false or fraudulent representation as to the nature of the act, or in the case of a married woman, by impersonating her husband…”

In considering this issue of consent, we will look at two scenarios which I found online. The first is a comment made on Sugabelly’s blog post asking her audience to list out all the reasons they have ever had sex for. A young woman listed her no. 5 thus:

“Coerced/Forced/Rape? This one has always been confusing for me, because it was a ‘guy I was in a relationship with and when we were making out and going too far, I said ‘No’ but he used his body weight and had his way… For some reason, I did not feel betrayed. I was disappointed it happened then, instead of later when I was absolutely ready but then I felt if I wasn’t making out with him naked, it wouldn’t have happened….”

Looking at the story on face value and juxtaposing it with the law, one will very easily conclude (as a lot of people actually did,) that the young woman was raped but her being a liberal thinker led to her excusing her said boyfriend. But if we delay passing judgment just for a few seconds and consider the defence of the youngman, perhaps we might see things in a different light. More often than not, any attempt to consider the defence of the individual accused of rape draws the ire of the public but aren’t they entitled to any defense whatsoever? Is it wrong to scrutinise a tale/allegation to determine if all the elements of rape are contained in it?

I very firmly believe that society, like the law should, whilst not blaming victims of rape for being raped, endeavour to scrutinise every rape story to decipher whether a girl who claimed to have been raped was indeed raped in the strict, if not legal, sense of the word.

Let us consider this tale above. They were involved in a sexual relationship, they were making out on the day in question, they both removed all their clothes (very likely helping each other out), he was lying on top of her very likely perfecting his final foreplay move and just as he was about to insert his penis, she said ‘No’.

Can and should the law allow her to withdraw consent at this point? If yes, wouldn’t the chemical composition of the youngman’s brain at that very instant entitle him to a defence of insanity against a charge of rape as he cannot be said to be in entire control of his faculties at the time?

Another question we must ask is: was the ‘No’ an emphatic and unmistakable one, so that it could not have been construed as a cry of ecstasy or a minor tease which ladies are sometimes wont to do? All men who have had sex on more than two occasions have had to turn a ‘No’ into a ‘Yes’ at some point in their lives and as such, the issue of whether the withdrawal of consent was clear, emphatic and unmistakable must be discussed. Does asking these question make me a potential rapist? I think not.

Did she struggle or push, did she scratch and bite, did she scream, was the circumstance one in which it can be presumed that she was unable to do any of the above because of a mortal feared inflicted by her assailant? The test, my dear friends must be objective and not subjective. On the face of the tale told, I find myself unable to accept that she was raped and I so submit.

The second story was posted on this blog sometime in 2013, it is captioned “My Own Rape Story”. Please go read it now and then come join me as we evaluate it together and determine for ourselves whether or not the young lady was raped. You are done reading it, yes? Good. Let’s proceed to dissect it and decipher the guy’s own tale from hers and maybe see if there is any defence anywhere for him by cross examining her story.

She didn’t know the organisers of the party before that day, her friend and her boyfriend who took her to the party informed her that it was not a wise decision to stay back, the younger brother of the dude offered her his room stating categorically that his brother had questionable ways with women and she refused the offer and went to sit beside the guy who did his best to ignore her and continued playing his game.

She did all she could to get his attention and when all else failed, she told him she was sleepy (which is a universal female language for “i am horny, can we have sex so i can sleep?) And he in fact left his game and offered her his room. This is the same girl that refused the younger brother’s offer and also left the other two girls in the house.

After bathing and lying down, he made advances to her which she did not rebuff, they made out voluntarily. He brought out a camera and started snapping but she did not reprimand him but merely made an excuse that she was cold and covered herself with duvet, he took off his clothes and joined her and she voluntarily continued making out. He was aggressive and she asked him to stop. COUNTERMAND!!!

After this countermand, he put his hand under her dress and fondled her breast and it was not the fact that he fondled her breast that bothered her but his roughness. At this point, shegave consent afresh. It was after he left the boobs and went to finger her that she again asked him to stop. When the dude was fingering her, she asked him to stop, that she didn’t like what he was doing i.e fingering, but she didn’t ask him to stop the foreplay. Haven’t we all been in a position where a lady says “No, I don’t like that”? does it necessarily mean we should dress up and leave? I think not.

When he proceeded to remove her boxers, she started crying, begging him to stop. He did not threaten or hit her, she started struggling and after pinning her down to show her she was not strong enough to fight (which i am sure a lot of guys here have done at various times, even in none sex plays with the opposite sex) for all the guy knew, the fight was part of the sex. But he finally left the bed, he got up, took off his boxers and applied jelly to his penis, saying ‘sexy stuff’. She did not move an inch, she did not countermand. She sat still. He came back to the bed and penetrated her and she did not fight him off. There were three other people in that house but she did not scream for help at any point.

Can it be said that she was raped? My view may be the unpopular one but I find it impossible to agree that she was raped. What I see instead is a young woman who made a bad decision and regrets it. I do not blame her for putting herself in a bad situation, I understand her plight and commiserate with her because her pain is real. The fact that I do not agree with her claim of rape does not mean the experience was not real to her or that she does not suffer the after effects of rape but i cannot, in order to pacify her, tell her a lie and condemn the youngman. He may have had a chequered history with women and consent in the past but that is no proof that he repeated it with her.

You see, her mother died early in her childhood and her relationship with her father was somewhat strained making her crave emotional validation and sometimes attachment from dangerous individuals. Is it then possible that she is drawn to abusive relationships? That she actually seeks out abusive men or men with questionable past and consciously put herself in their paths, doing everything she possible can to force them to exercise their demons? Is it possible that the vile youngman was himself the victim in this particular story?

She was highly intoxicated on the day in question and the effects of intoxication include a feeling of euphoria and a lowered social inhibition amongst a myriad of evils. She has had a past with drugs and those do have long term side effects as well. We cannot suddenly forget about this when determining what did or did not happen on the night in question.

I have tried my best to evaluate both stories above on the social scale as doing so on a strictly legal ground will explode the number of pages of this piece and I am open to criticism as I do not delude myself into thinking my views are universal or absolute or that I have considered all the angles of the stories.

Now, a legal view. Assuming for any reason either of these cases were charged to court, would the men be convicted of rape? I think not. You see, during foreplay the vagina secretes fluids that make penetration easy, preventing the woman from bruising. Notwithstanding this, some women still bruise during sex but the degree of the bruises is what distinguishes consensual sex from rape. A medical exam is essential immediately after a rape and the testimony of such medical examiner is crucial in a trial for rape.

As can be construed from their tales, both women above were already gushing before they were penetrated. What will an examination of their vagina show immediately after the sex/rape? Assuming both men claim in their defense that the sex was consensual, the vagina of the girl in the first scenario will confirm the story of the youngman, the vagina of the girl in the second scenario will show that they had rough but consensual sex, the testimony of everyone who advised her against her supposed assailant will confirm her desire for that rough sex.

Rape is an abhorrent and reprehensible criminal act for which there can never be a justification but we must ask questions and decide for ourselves rather than allow our passion and hate for the crime blind us. Please tell me, do you think these women were raped because I don’t?

NB: Unlike what many have been led to believe, there have been a lot more rape convictions in Nigeria than the sixteen recently being touted.

Image via WondersList

Responses

  1. victor osagie
    though i dont think the two ladies were rape in absolute sense of lovers’ perception love acts but i deem it wise for guys to always make sure dat their sex mates ‘no, stop, pls don’t, etc’ are parts of sex foreplay nd nt consent withdrawal before proceeding with penetration. A fake ‘no, no stop’ is always easy to tell from girls’ mood nd tune. When a guy see that sign, he jst need to plead a bit and place nd kiss on d lady’s lips nd her response will tell d guy her true position. In all d two ladies were not rape.
    1+
    1. Optimus Prime
      I disagree with you, Victor. Both cases are rape, according to the law, as at when both events take place. You can argue both cases are not “rape rape” – as in when a stranger clubs a woman in the head and have his way with her but it’s still rape.

      I also think the law is a bit biased towards the female cos when sex partners who engage in mutually reckless drunken sex, that is, when BOTH parties are intoxicated and mutually decide, in their mutually drunken states, to have sex, both of them engage in PRECISELY THE SAME CONDUCT.

      The only difference is that one has a penis and one has a vagina. I think it is unjust to hold only the man responsible when two drunks mutually decide to have sex. That is the bit that should be changed in law. Until then, a man should know he would be found guilty of rape if he has a sexual intercourse with a drunken woman. No excuses.

      6+
      1. don flowers
        The law actually provides for the defence of intoxication which, though not an absolute defence depending on the circumstances of a particular case, is still a defence nonetheless.
        0
    2. don flowers
      What about the please of insanity at the time. How easy is it to withdraw and return the distinguished honourable John Thomas back into his the boxers after he has smelt the holy grail?
      2+
    1. don flowers
      Had it coming? Are you saying they deserved what they got? That notwithstanding their desire not to proceed, they cannot be excused and they should be blamed for what happened to them?

      Remember the fact that you do not agree that they were raped doesn’t necessarily make the experience any less real for them

      1+
  2. bukasen
    well I like what was said in this place I have been in so many ocation when u are ready to after slouching and romansing you now want plug in she say no and after your face is Fran she we say ok come in I will live u
    0
    1. don flowers
      My point exactly sir, after a while a guy could get used to turning “No’s” into “Yes” which is in itself a danger as such a guy might develop a feeling of entitlement.
      2+
  3. Cee
    Whilst your article shows work well researched, I find your opinions terribly biased. Rather than create a balanced view you have proceeded to ‘blame the victim’ despite stating that it wasn’t your intention. Lol ‘defence of insanity’.. that’s laughable.
    8+
    1. Optimus Prime
      One cannot argue for the menfolk without sounding off like a rape apologist. This is a very sensitive topic and there are situations where one would be compelled to think the victim was asking for it.

      If I strap hundred dollar bills on myself and walk through Balogun market, I would be deluded to think someone would not reach out and pluck some Benjamins off my body. Should the thief be doing that? No. But then, neither should I be putting myself in a situation to be robbed.

      5+
    2. Don Flowers
      Esteemed sir,
      Whilst I did my best not to blame the victim (I actually think I achieved it), the object of the article is to consider the defenses, if any, available to the alleged rapists.

      Being able to do that effectively requires leaving my pre existing biases.

      Yes, the defense of insanity may sound stupid now but it is a defense available in law and when properly argued, you’d be surprised at how very plausible it appears

      2+
  4. Gbemisoke
    Brilliant. I don’t think your opinions are biased at all because the common opinion is very rigid and so our minds have been made to blindly accept the general take. Rape is a despicable act alright, but our sense of judgement should not be clouded by hate that we cannot be open-minded enough to evaluate all possible angles of the issue.
    3+
  5. Uche
    I don’t know if I’m the only one misinterpreting anything but you lost me at the paragraph I summarise to imply that there’s no such thing as a marital rape. Sorry.
    2+
    1. Don Flowers
      Exactly!!

      According to how the law was framed, it’s going to be an upheaval task proving rape against the husband of a valid marriage.

      And believe me you, drafting such a legislation requires a lot of ingenuity but a woman who has been raped by her husband can commence action against him for assault as there is no limitations under that provision, but under our current regime, I do not see how a woman can convince a court to convict her husband of rape unless the husband procured the services of someone to rape her. He will then be complicit in the rape whether or not he joined the said ‘someone’ to rape his wife.

      2+
  6. Martha Flowers
    I believe both cases, the individuals involved knew what they were getting into. I am a strong believer in the saying “Don’t start what you can’t finish. It’s stupid for a person to get naked with the opposite sex on a bed and suddenly decide they are no longer interested. It will take a man with strong restraint and principles to stay back.
    That being said, most often than not, one can not tell what happens behind closed doors. It is the word of the “victim” against the word of the “accused”. There could have been threats but as long as there is no physical evidence, it did not happen.
    After all said and done, my one dollar in this discussion is, if you are not interested in having sex with anyone, even if you are in a relationship with them, don’t put yourself in a position where you will need witnesses to save you or you blaming someone for your actions. And if it happens that you are in a awkward situation, make your decision clear and firm to avoid misconceptions.
    6+
    1. Funmi
      Dear Martha, people change their minds. Maybe I wanted to have sex with you 30mins ago so I got naked. Maybe the voice of Christ and Jiminy Cricket spoke to me and told me not to fornicate so I repented. It happens.

      This argument that once people are in certain situations, they are not allowed to cry foul when abused doesn’t make sense. Even people who make full purchases return products and ask for refunds, not to talk of someone who hasn’t done the deed yet. People change their minds. It’s human nature to be fickle. I don’t understand why we can’t see how this can also be the case with sex.

      18+
    2. Kad
      Let’s say we usually go naked and do d whole foreplay, it doesn’t mean I want to go all the way.
      you both are engrossed and then you notice he wants to go all d way, you say no and continue where you left off cos you said no and believe he heard you loud and Clear.
      I believe if twas a tease/I wanted longer foreplay before he goes in, I’d tell him when the to take the prize.# NoExcuseForRape
      3+
  7. A.Y.O
    I found this article pretty disgusting.
    For a legal practitioner, this is a rather cursory examination of the law re rape.
    Also; “the degree of bruising is what distinguishes consensual sex from rape” – this is laughable. No, really, I mean no insult but I’m ashamed for you. Because; penis sizes differ. In Girth.
    Vaginas aren’t all the same too, you know? There are those who will deal with bruising every single time they have sex- because of their partner’s penis size, or because of the form their vagina takes.
    So, it is incredible that you would make the assertion above. Wow.

    FYI- I’m a lawyer. I started off glancing through the article thinking I had found a discussion on the morality of defending individuals you know to be criminals, or something of the sort.
    Only to find that what you label “defence of the young man” really is just victim blaming.
    You went on to say we should (in the defence on the young man) consider whether all the elements of rape are in the story mentioned there. But you fail to do that like a lawyer.

    Further, your defence of insanity paragraph is embarrassing. Please don’t abuse the law simply because you have studied it.
    Human beings are not animals. We are higher beings.
    The defense of insanity is available to a category of people for a reason.

    “Did she struggle or push…” – this is also another paragraph that shows you simply have too little grasp of the issues you try to discuss here.

    “Was the no an emphatic or unmistakable one such that it could not be construed as a cry of ecstasy or minor tease, which ladies are often won’t to do” – Are you kidding me with this?
    The next time you deign to write an article on issues such as this and ask these pseudo-intellectual, – if even that -,questions, ensure you’ve done your research on the topic first. Check your prejudices. We don’t always know how or the extent to which these influence our cognitive processes.

    “Intoxicated..” “.. She had a past with drugs..” – I am terribly ashamed. You are a lawyer.
    You are not a layman. Again- don’t confuse your prejudices for the facts underlying the elements of an offense. Please. I beg you.

    And to the commenters above talking about “let’s not be so clouded with hate that we don’t consider all possible angles”. “.. they both had it coming.”
    We lack empathy too often because we are too removed from the circumstances that warrant it. I feel such deep sadness for you.

    Wow. I worry for Nigeria.

    26+
    1. A.Y.O
      I hadn’t read the article line by line- as earlier said, I glanced through.
      So I didn’t see that you said “he may have a checkered history with women and consent but that is no proof that he repeated it with her.”
      But you go on to talk about her intoxication and drug use?

      Do you even fully understand what you have written here?

      10+
    2. Toby
      I feel like applauding you till my arms fall off. Such a wonderful takedown.
      This article made me so sad at the level of victim blaming, and the comments before yours just made things worse.
      Nigeria has a long way to go.
      4+
    3. Don Flowers
      Hi,

      I appreciate your comment, might I add that I disagree with every form of victim blaming. I will do my best to address the issues you have raised.

      1. Your cries about sizes of genitalia actually reinforces my position.

      I stated earlier that some women bruise during sex naturally, that the vagina secretes fluids primarily to prevent such bruising.

      It therefore means that there are some bruises that are consistent with consensual sex and there are those that are not.

      2. You allege that I fail to consider the elements of the offense of rape like a lawyer should and proceeded to castigate me but you have not evaluated the elements of the offense yourself.

      Being a lawyer, I’m sure you appreciate what a proper traverse is, making emotional accusations do not count as one. Argue like a lawyer man, you have been hailed as stand up dude enlightening the esteemed readers here but I fail to see any knowledge dispersed. All I see are pre existing biases leading to emotional and incoherent explosion.

      By the way the above also applies to your explosions as to the defense of insanity. Ask yourself this: “is it a defense open to an accused person? Is the circumstance of the case one in which the defense will be available to an accused even if not exculpatory?

      3. Your reference to whether she struggled or pushed and stating that I know too little of the subject matter is most embarrassing and demeaning. It makes me wan to ask if you have ever handled a rape trial personally or alongside someone at least, if you need ever followed an actual tape trial even if he were not the one doing the matter. In trial for rape where the accused puts up the defense of consent and like the two scenarios above, where there is no evidence of violence, and in my opinion, no objective evidence that the consent was obtained by force or by means of threats or intimidation of any kind or by fear of harm what do you think would be material?

      As a lawyer giving an opinion as to an individual’s interpretation of the law, it is most surprising that you did not make a single reference to the law.

      By the way, did you see the part about re-consenting? Making the issue of the withdrawal of consent relevant?

      I could go on and on but to continue will be to give your insulting remarks some relevance. You spoke about prejudice, please check yours because your entire comment betrayed your utter ignorance.

      My brother, learn the law and argue with it or argue with reason, but please, don’t just rant.

      5+
      1. A.Y.O
        I’m not sure what gives you the impression that I’m male. But I won’t go into that.
        I’m female. My name is Amaka.

        Your disclaimer re victim blaming is unnecessary. Far too many Nigerian men will vehemently oppose rape and the in the next breath ask “but what was she wearing?” Or some variant. That’s you here.
        It is evident you won’t tolerate rape. But you don’t seem to understand it fully. You seem very willing to disregard instances of it and victim blame because your prejudices cloud your judgment.
        I don’t disagree that some people tend to have an emotional reaction to allegations of rape (I’m hoping that’s what you’re saying) but what you fail to understand is that- this emotional reaction does not preclude rational analyses of the facts therein. Furthermore, an emotional reaction (eg hate directed towards the alleged rapist) is a problem in more developed societies. But don’t kid yourself by pretending that the majority of Nigerians won’t vilify the female first.
        Don’t kid yourself and don’t insult us.

        You mention my “Giving an opinion to an individual’s interpretation of the law.. without making reference to it being surprising” – you don’t quite get it. You see- you didn’t actually interpret the law.

        To clarify; alleged rapists are entitled to a defense. Every individual, every accused is entitled to a defense. This is still true when you know they are guilty. This is what I initially thought your article was about. The morality, personal opinion and whatnot. I was so excited at first!

        That said; I’ll begin.

        What is clear to your more enlightened readers is that whilst you may think that you have tried to admonish your readers to first subject to scrutiny, a young woman’s story so as to “decipher whether or not she was raped” – , you have done a poor job. And in doing so, have done nothing to aid the already dismal discourse.

        You first ask whether the chemical compositions of the man’s brain shouldn’t entitle him to a defence of insanity because he can not be said to be in full control of his faculties at the time.” – My (and other civil/rational individual’s) response to this is “How dare you?” Are men animals? Or why would you think you could possibly stretch the already troublesome defense of insanity to these cases? By implication, men should be able to use the very fact of getting to this “late” stage to disregard a woman’s refusal to continue?
        And note though that even when they both got to this stage together, it’s irrelevant that she stays in enough control to refuse sexual intercourse, whilst he should be entitled to claim insanity, right? Because he’s a manly beast and should be entitled to run mad, if she dares refuse him at such a late stage, right?
        Young man. The reason we have laws is to place restrictions on individuals’ actions (and where there are exceptions- to make allowances with the knowledge that the interests of justice cannot be served if one rule is made to fit all.) We absolutely cannot do what we want or take what we want. We respect bodily integrity.
        Fuck any context. No is no. Some people are actually legally insane and/or unable to tell right from wrong in the course of certain actions. There is a reason why the defense of insanity is only available in certain contexts. And if you had truly considered how difficult the defense is to prove to a judge (or jury), you wouldn’t say this nonsense. If you could make a logical argument re insanity and get your readers to accept that this just might be a brilliant defense lawyer tactic that you propose: you would’ve made it. And this is me indulging you, for the sake of your poor clients. So. Don’t insult us.
        So, again- how dare you?
        Are you even able to check your male privilege?
        Pray tell: what are my “pre-existing biases leading to emotional and incoherent explosion” here?
        Or do you think fancy phrases justify tripe?

        Re vagina and penis sizes; no, young man- my point doesn’t reinforce your position. Yes, you stated that some women “will still bruise naturally during sex”. I agree. Different sizes and whatnot make this inevitable.
        My point however was- there is NOT a “degree of bruising” which “distinguishes consensual sex from rape”. There CANNOT BE. This is simply not a reliable statement to make. To indulge you: of course, in criminal trials, when taken with other evidence, bruising, if found, will likely serve to indicate an absence of consent: ie force.
        But are you willing to assert that rape can only be carried out by force?
        And are you able to tell us the distinction between bruising caused by rough sex and that caused by non-consensual sex? Do you see now the extent of your “opinion”?
        Let me restate, yes: trauma to the female genitalia can be caused by forceful penetration. STILL, in those cases: the likelihood and extent of any injuries will, by necessity, depend on things like:
        – penis size, angle of penetration, relaxation of the pelvic muscles, etc.
        If a woman does not resist her rape, whether out of fear, threat, intimidation, or other mental or physical: and there is little to no bruising, does that disprove her claim of rape? It is incredibly dangerous to make the assertion you made and I would advise that you desist from doing so.

        Look. the different girths of penises and vaginal sizes mean that you cannot look at a vagina and say- this is more consistent with consensual than non-consensual sex.
        Medical examiners can usually not determine this, in the absence of any other evidence or extreme lacerations: so, who the hell are you, to tell us that the degree of bruising is what distinguishes consensual from non-consensual sex?
        Oh, but wait, have you heard even, of the instances where rape victims can get “wet” and even orgasm whilst being raped? Does this mean they enjoyed their rape? Does this mean no force was involved? Or worse- that they weren’t raped because they enjoyed it/their bodies responded to the act of sex?! Or will you say that “the degree of bruising will still be more than in instances of consensual sex”??
        Have you heard also, the oft touted statistic that most women who are raped do not sustain genital injuries? (just a third do.)
        Do you see why I say your point is simply false? And why I say, do some research?

        I completely agree that every rape allegation must be scrutinized. The outcome of such allegations whether or not they do go to trial, have very profound impacts on the lives of the individuals involved. So we always need to be careful. We have to be able to scrutinize with a view to establishing the truth. Considering the fact that the majority of rapes are carried out by individuals who knew the victims, the situation; legally and socially speaking, is already made more complex.
        What you most certainly don’t do, is tell these women that the fact that they started heavily making out with these men is reason enough for rape to be discountenanced.

        Out of curiousity: what do you mean by I “don’t evaluate the elements of the offense myself?” I didn’t put forward any set of facts or assertions and then go on to make nonsense of them. Why on earth would you demand that I educate you? You, who has chosen to write an entire article.

        Re (3): I have of course. And it is the people like you who keep taking us several steps back. Do you know what intimidation means?
        “… Where no evidence exists that consent was obtained by force, threat or intimidation of any kind or any fear of harm” – it would literally require an article and several real life examples to elucidate the danger of and disservice you do to your country with these statements.
        – what do you define as “harm”? To limit it to physical harm is to prove your own folly.
        – Evidence? You, who has just said – “…her mother died early in her childhood and her relationship with her father was somewhat strained making her crave emotional validation and sometimes attachment….” – suddenly don’t have any evidence to support the fact that consent may have been obtained by “intimidation of any kind.” You, who has said that she was intoxicated and has a history of drug use, suddenly see no way that consent could’ve been obtained by any threats or intimidation.
        You want to be Mr-Objective but claim that “we cannot suddenly forget about this [drugs & intoxication] when determining what did or did not happen on the night in question.” Really, young man?
        FYI- a quick Google search will show you that what you probably assume to be intimidation, etc is a narrow, layman use of the word.

        Re the first story; “Did she struggle or push, did she scratch and bite, did she scream, was the circumstance one in which it can be presumed that she was unable to do any of the above because of a mortal feared inflicted by her assailant? The test, my dear friends must be objective and not subjective. On the face of the tale told, I find myself unable to accept that she was raped and I so submit.” – Your submission is poor.
        I find it difficult to understand why you are insistent that you would need evidence of violence, struggling, pushing, biting, screaming to prove rape. As per my above paragraph: literally no evidence of violence, struggling, pushing, whatever else is necessary. No physical resistance is necessary to prove or disprove rape.
        When you’re mentally overpowered/restrained- how do you physically resist. Is that possible in all cases? The question you should’ve asked is what sort of intimidation was it? What was it about him/his reputation or even hers, etc that compelled her to submit at the time, that she is too ashamed to recount now?
        Your point was moot ab initio.
        Because, even if you wanted to use the wondrously outdated Nigerian penal or criminal code to make your point- those are not even the evidentiary requirements. Don’t embarrass yourself young man.

        You want to believe you are engaging in objective analysis, but you go to lengths to tell us that: “she refused his offer and went to sit beside the guy…” “she did all she could to get his attention.”
        Young man, you do your possible best to make a mockery of her story- re-telling it as you want, to fit your horrible opinion.
        You do all this. And then claim you abhor victim blaming.
        How dare you, boy?
        Hopefully, you don’t have a sister. And if you do, hopefully, she doesn’t develop crushes on her school mates. And hopefully, the boy she develops a crush on doesn’t rape her, and, she out of fear of being ostracized or similar, – hopefully doesn’t stay quiet during or after the fact.
        And hopefully, there are no vacuous others like you, to tell her that she wasn’t raped and likely just regretted a bad decision. Hopefully.

        Yes. I did not make any references to the law. It is not my job to educate you. It was yours to put out a thought provoking piece- not muck.
        As much as you think you “have tried to evaluate both stories”- you’ve done a crappy job.
        I was pretty pissed off. You can’t imagine how this could be detrimental to rape survivors already scared to speak up. This is a sensitive issue you cannot handle this flippantly.

        Ps: I saw later comments before posting this, where you say you’re not sure I’m a lawyer and even if I am, surely one of those newbie ones. I laughed out loud. So cute.

        And re my first comment being condescending? Why do you think that wasn’t the point?
        Rude? That’s your prerogative.

        NB: Long and distracted reply. Forgive all misspellings or mistakes please.

        13+
        1. Don Flowers
          I really want to reply you if only to defend myself from all the allegations you have laid against me, but I find myself unable to look past the insults.

          Maybe if you are able to retype without the insults I might just come back and respond.

          Peace be upon you.

          4+
        2. Funk
          This was an examination of a defence for the accused. “Abuse the law”? Don’t act like lawyers don’t look for ways to bend terms and provisions in the law all the time. You’re the one abusing the law. Coming here making ad hominem arguments. Don’t like his points, make yours without resorting to attacks on his person. Really hard to read the “arguments” of someone who says things like “Check your male privilege”. Just another feminist living in delusion.
          7+
      2. Bkd
        Dear Ayo, I wish I could give a detailed narration of my own experience(s) but for time and energy , I’ll keep it brief.
        A certain girlfriend to my close pal accused me of rape . There was no way yo prove my innocence so it was her word against mine. Naturally, hers wasn’t taken. I almost lost MTV life to my pal’s vengefulness as he came after me with his cultist resources.
        Fast forward to 7 years later and I ask her why’ve she accused me so. Hear her reasons:
        1: “I don’t handle rejection quite well. I offer myself to you and you turning me down was the worst insult ever.”
        2:”I was afraid you’d tell him what I did. I hadn’t to beat you to it”
        3:”I know you never approved of us dating and I had given you more arsenal with which to attack my relationship.”
        4″I felt vulnerable and at your mercy. I had to protect myself”

        I am telling Thisbe story to let y’al know that sometimes, there’s always another side to the story and the guys(accused) just might be the victim especially when you consider how manipulative women can be.
        God bless.

        0
    4. Od
      Hi Amaka (saw where you said that’s your name), I’m going to quote and answer your arguments in blocks. Each quote I copy from your comment will be in quotes. Following it will be my response without any quote marks. I’ll number each block for ease of reference. I hope we can have a meaningful and fruitful engagement. :)

      1. ‘I found this article pretty disgusting.’

      So do quite a few other women. Doesn’t prove that there’s anything wrong with the article itself, only that you dislike it a lot.

      2. ‘For a legal practitioner, this is a rather
      cursory examination of the law re rape. Also; “the degree of bruising is what distinguishes consensual sex from rape” – this is laughable. No, really, I mean no insult but I’m ashamed for you. Because; penis sizes differ. In Girth. Vaginas aren’t all the same too, you know? There are those who will deal with bruising every single time they have sex- because of their partner’s penis size, or because of the form their vagina takes. So, it is incredible that you would make the assertion above. Wow.’

      He has already answered this so I do not need to. I agree with him that he stated the same clearly in his article.

      3. ‘FYI- I’m a lawyer.’

      Excellent. But it doesn’t make his article wrong. It only suggests that you are competent to examine the article from the same point of view that he used to write it.

      4. ‘I started off glancing through the article thinking I had found a discussion on the morality of defending individuals you know to be criminals, or something of the sort. Only to find that what you label “defence of the young man” really is just victim blaming.’

      He did warn that the viewpoint in his article could easily be mistaken for victim-blaming. So, perhaps he had a point.

      Personally, I hold that the victim CAN be blamed. While that can be upsetting to potential and actual victims of rape, it is not necessarily untrue just because it is. But we can argue that independent of his own position on the matter, if you wish.

      5. ‘You went on to say we should (in the
      defence on the young man) consider
      whether all the elements of rape are in the
      story mentioned there. But you fail to do
      that like a lawyer.’

      How exactly does he fail? Your claim that he does is no proof in itself. The point of engagement should be to show how or why something is true, not to unilaterally declaim that it is.

      6. ‘Further, your defence of insanity paragraph is embarrassing. Please don’t abuse the law simply because you have studied it. Human beings are not animals. We are higher beings. The defense of insanity is available to a category of people for a reason.’

      What relationship is there between your statement of man’s superiority to the animals and the idea of the defence of insanity? What reason is this that exists to make the defence of insanity available to this category of people you spoke of? And what category is it exactly? Do they exclude the young man he spoke of in relation to the defence of insanity? How does that defence not hold true for him?

      7. ‘“Did she struggle or push…” – this is also another paragraph that shows you simply have too little grasp of the issues you try to discuss here.
      “Was the no an emphatic or unmistakable one such that it could not be construed as a cry of ecstasy or minor tease, which
      adies are often won’t to do” – Are you
      kidding me with this?’

      Again you have not made an argument, just mocked the argument that he made. That too does not prove in any way that he was wrong. And you have again gone on to make a claim without substantiating it. What is your reason for claiming that he does not have a good grasp of the issues? Should we just take your word for it? Or is this an appeal to common sense? If it is, what is the common knowledge that he is ignoring here?

      8. ‘The next time you deign to write an article on issues such as this and ask these pseudo-intellectual, – if even that -,questions, ensure you’ve done your research on the topic first. Check your prejudices. We don’t always know how or the extent to which these influence our cognitive processes.’

      This is a hash of condescension and accusation saying nothing to prove these assumed or claimed errors in his arguments. It still does not quite help us understand what your objection to his article is.

      9. ‘“Intoxicated..” “.. She had a past with drugs..” – I am terribly ashamed. You are a lawyer. You are not a layman. Again- don’t confuse your prejudices for the facts underlying the elements of an offense. Please. I beg you.’

      Again, you do not say what is wrong with what he said. So, this too is unhelpful. Additionally, you have accused him of confusing “his prejudices with the facts underlying…”. How has he done so? What are these facts? What are these elements? What prejudices do you accuse him of holding?

      10. ‘And to the commenters above talking about “let’s not be so clouded with hate that we don’t consider all possible angles”. “.. they both had it coming.” We lack empathy too often because we are too removed from the circumstances that warrant it. I feel such deep sadness for you.’

      Is it empathy then that you believe those commenters lack? Does the possession of empathy necessarily dispose examiners of rape cases and issues to void every possibility of responsibility on the side of the victim? Is that rational? Can we build a better world and eliminate every possibility of rape by never considering the possibility that those who suffer rape may have been in any way responsible for their fate?

      11. ‘Wow. I worry for Nigeria.’

      So do I, Amaka, so do I. In fact, I worry for the entire world.

      12+
      1. A.Y.O
        Hey Od!

        In response: I saw zero need for a detailed response. It was my reaction to the young man’s article.
        My first comment was my first ever comment on this site.
        My response will mirror your structure where possible.

        1) “He has already answered this so I do not need to. I agree with him that he stated the same clearly in his article.”

        I suppose it was my fault for not doing a better job explaining.
        Merely listing things is hardly a good strategy.
        Also, I’m not sure what you mean he answered. Yes- he stated women still bruise during consensual sex. So?
        That doesn’t make his statement that: “the degree of bruising is what distinguishes consensual from non- consensual sex.” any truer.
        Even extensive bruising cannot be definitive of the fact rape. It must be taken together with other things.
        Only if it were- would his statement be true. Otherwise- what do you do about females where there’s no signs of bruising on internal examination? You dismiss their rape allegation, as they obviously couldn’t possibly have had any sex: consensual or not if there’s no bruising?
        I think not.
        His acceptance that some women will still bruise is neither here nor there if the point it serves is false.

        2) “Excellent. But it doesn’t make his article wrong. It only suggests that you are competent to examine the article from the same point of view that he used to write it.”

        Stating that I was a lawyer was simply to cover the base. So I would get no trash about not understanding the practice.
        In any case- he eventually went on to say I wasn’t a lawyer.

        3) “He did warn that the viewpoint in his article could easily be mistaken for victim-blaming. So, perhaps he had a point.
        Personally, I hold that the victim CAN be blamed. While that can be upsetting to potential and actual victims of rape, it is not necessarily untrue just because it is. But we can argue that independent of his own position on the matter, if you wish.”

        No one is mistaking his viewpoint for victim blaming. He is victim blaming. That’s the end of that.

        We abhor victim blaming because it ignores the fact that a person who chooses to rape another has done so of his own volition. So, it is irrelevant if she was drunk or flirting excessively or half naked or masturbating in public.

        If one chooses to blame another for their rape of that other, one holds that other responsible for actions one took of one’s own free will. It must be nice to relieve oneself of that responsibility I’m sure.

        If you choose to believe that the victim can be blamed- that is entirely your problem and I wish you the best with that belief. You seem educated and can do your own research, ask your own questions, consider given scenarios, consider the rape issue as a whole and reach your own conclusions.

        I’d still like to hear why you think so, regardless.

        4) “How exactly does he fail? Your claim that he does is no proof in itself. The point of engagement should be to show how or why something is true, not to unilaterally declaim that it is.”

        Mr Referee, the point of engagement is whatever the parties determine that it is.

        5) “What relationship is there between your statement of man’s superiority to the animals and the idea of the defence of insanity? What reason is this that exists to make the defence of insanity available to this category of people you spoke of? And what category is it exactly? Do they exclude the young man he spoke of in relation to the defence of insanity? How does that defence not hold true for him?”

        I don’t imagine you expect me to do the young man’s work for him.

        To throw in the insanity defense so flippantly, with no legal reasoning/ basic logic to support it is one thing. To ask me to detail my condemnation of the fact is just overreaching.

        Don’t claim to be a lawyer and throw out legal terminology, with zero thought and with the hope that the non-

        6) “Again you have not made an argument, just mocked the argument that he made. That too does not prove in any way that he was wrong. And you have again gone on to make a claim without substantiating it. What is your reason for claiming that he does not have a good grasp of the issues? Should we just take your word for it? Or is this an appeal to common sense? If it is, what is the common knowledge that he is ignoring here?”

        Your questions wear me out. Simply because your inquisition might’ve been better directed at the writer of the article. With this paragraph alone, he reinforces seriously flawed existing mindset.

        I’ve pointed out faulty paragraphs here. Even if I were to go on to explain a bit further and prove him wrong, should the reader take my word for it then? No. I’ve made my point. If the curiosity is upon the reader, they need to do some goddamn research.

        And what common knowledge is he ignoring here? “Did she struggle, push, bite, scream or fear injury that she didn’t do these” He ignores that these are outdated questions to ask today. If we say that most rapes are committed by people known to the victim: in this case (and a lot more) boyfriends! – how likely is she to scream? How can you tell if she struggled? If she’s black/dark skinned are you going to be looking to see if there’s bruising around her wrists or neck? Because I assure you, you’re unlikely to find them. How do you define struggling enough or biting enough or screaming enough? If no one hears her scream, do you argue then that she didn’t scream or that it means that she didn’t scream enough and therefore submitted and or wanted it or only screamed in the throes of ecstasy.

        This is wearisome.

        Questions 8, 9,:

        You find my responses unhelpful- but that’s probably you not applying yourself. You read his article. You read the legal definition of rape. You read my comment. You read the highlighted paragraph in question from the article.

        Definition: “any person who has unlawful carnal knowledge of any woman or girl, without her consent or with her consent if the consent was obtained by force or by means of threats or intimidation of any kind or by fear of harm or by means of false or fraudulent representation as to the nature of the act…”

        So if I asked you to apply yourself a bit and cross check the legal definition, pray tell how her intoxication or history of drug use with their ” side effects” do anything but DIMINISH her ability to consent in the first place? Because FYI and this lawyer must know this: the more intoxicated she was, the more this counts against whichever man claims she consented. Legally speaking. Is there anything in the definition of/elements of rape that possibly changes if the girl is drunk? Is there any caveat if she has a history of drug use? Anything that goes to disproving any element of the offense? If so- has he explained it? I think not.

        So. To throw out something about drunkenness and drug use- is intended to victim blame. To inflame. To prejudice. Have people think- well, why get so intoxicated. Why flirt so much. Why make out with him in bed and be drunk AND high. That she deserved it. Only see these other comments. To detract from the fact that no is no. She wanted it and now, she now feels bad and cries rape. Oh how unfair for the poor man/guy. In fact- see how many past boyfriends she’s had.

        But we ignore that he gets in bed with a drunk girl, who says NO and still takes advantage of her? We ignore the fact that someone who doesn’t bother checking why his partner is “still” probably doesn’t care whether she wants it.

        You cannot see how dangerous this thinking is?

        Question 10 is truly irritating with this crap: “Can we build a better world and eliminate every possibility of rape by never considering the possibility that those who suffer rape may have been in any way responsible for their fate?” – This, I will ignore regardless of how good your intentions are for the world.

        And no, the empathy comment was in response to something.

        But. If you’re Nigerian, you know Nigerians. You know the patriarchy that dominates and how we are so attuned to it that we don’t even realize how it influences us. How prejudices are handed down through our borrowed and old religions. How self righteous we are. How females are often the harshest critics of other females. This is why a female comes on here and comments that “they both had it coming.” Or asks why they’d get a man to that stage and not expect him to want sex. These females might be raised/indoctrinated to believe they were put on this earth to cater to, service, be the inferior sex to or submit to men, but I certainly am not.

        8+
        1. A.Y.O
          My response to (4) was a joke (Mr. Referee) lol. And I’m sorry that that wasn’t obvious. :)

          Truth be told, I appreciate that you called me out on condemning the piece without any supporting arguments. I will endeavor to do that in the future if I do comment.

          Thank you :).

          0
        2. Od
          1. Just a bit of advice: use the reference numbers so that it’s easier to identify what you’re answering and what you’re ignoring. You skipped #1 in my response to you and offered no reason for ignoring it. Not good practice in a debate.

          Yes, merely listing things is not a good strategy. Doesn’t help anyone understand what you’re about.

          Your admission that the bruising is taken into consideration at all even if with other factors does prove that he has a point. I’ll grant with some reservation (seeing as I’m not a medical expert and currently cannot establish with research what the truth is because of my time limitations) that he was wrong in that particular statement you quoted. It seems to me that if you drugged a woman with something that has aphrodisiac and other inhibition-lowering properties and proceeded to have sex with her without her explicit consent beforehand then there might not be bruising consistent with struggle. That would still be rape even without that bit of evidence. I’ll grant you that but with the reservation that I stated.

          2. That may be true. It may also be true that you said so to lend credibility to your otherwise unacceptable response. We only have your word for it. The better practice is to demonstrate your expertise by handling the debate like a lawyer should.

          3. Again, that is not the end of that. That you say it does not make it so. You have to demonstrate exactly how he is actually blaming the victim.

          About my personal position on the responsibility of the victim, I will say first of all in answer to what you said in your argument that the responsibility of the victim does not diminish the responsibility of the perpetrator. There is no law, natural or otherwise, that requires a man or woman to rape someone because such a person behaved in any way that may have been construed to “invite rape”. That is not my position and it does not define the concept of “blaming the victim”. That is wholly how you choose to see it and in so far as it addresses my position, it is a straw man.

          The responsibility of the victim deals with vigilance and proper appreciation of the realities of this world. There are wicked people who will rape you for no reason other than that you exist. Then there are those who rape you because they misinterpreted your behavior, dressing or speech. The latter may be insane or they may merely be looking for excuses but their defense is not always unreasonable. The wise thing to do to keep yourself safe is to make sure that your communication requiring what you want with respect to sex is clear. The girl who went partying and ended up in a young man’s room and complained about getting raped can have her accusation thrown out on the single fact that her own stated actions contradicted her protestations. If she didn’t want sex, she simply should not have spent the night in his room. If she only changed her mind when things had progressed, then she was unwisely overestimating the honor and decency of a stranger.

          If potential victims of rape took care to remove possibility of miscommunication and reduced exposure to risky situations, the chances of their getting raped would be lowered. I admit that the chances wouldn’t be entirely eliminated but it cannot be denied that they would be reduced and that that would help the effort to eliminate rape from the world.

          4. Very curious thing for a lawyer to say. Glad to learn in your later comment that you were joking here. When people debate in public, they are bound by the inclusion of the audience to ensure that they make sense to those following their discussions and who might contribute. As such, you cannot make claims and expect everyone to just swallow them and walk away. You must back up your claims with arguments that can be examined for accuracy.

          5. You’re falling back into the mistake you started out making. You challenged his invocation of the insanity defense and offered no reason for doing so and now you say I’m overreaching for demanding your reason for challenging it. If you think that he invoked it flippantly, should you not have demonstrated it with proper questions as to its lack of legitimacy in his case? Your claim that I’m requiring you to do his work for him is a rather weak cop-out. Remember: you challenge, you do so with clear reasons. Or else you ask us to take your word for it that your challenge is right. And why should we? Are you some kind of omniscient?

          6. Intellectual work is often difficult. You should know that since you’re a lawyer. It’s rather lazy to ask me to pass the work to him when you came out guns blazing all intent on righteous murder, if you will, because someone wrote something you didn’t like. It’s unfortunate that the need to think about it and figure out what it is that upsets you so much about it and whether that upset is really proof that what they wrote is wrong is tiresome to you. It’s easy to make careless emotional claims. That’s why ALUU 4 happened and why people are often mobbed. When we are unwilling to examine our emotional objections for their logical integrity, we turn into animals that murder and destroy society just because we don’t like something.

          Now you have made another claim: that he is reinforcing a flawed mindset. What is the flaw you mean and how does he reinforce it? Don’t just throw claims about and expect us to swallow it. The only ones who do are those who share your feelings about the subject but who may also, like you, care little for the reasons and arguments involved in it.

          7. This is a rather curious defense. How does the fact that the person forcing you to have sex is your boyfriend prevent you from screaming and struggling? I don’t understand what you mean at all. Does it interfere with her vocal cords or paralyze her in some way? Is it a psychological issue? If it is, what does the fact that your boyfriend is trying to rape you do to your mind? Is there research you possess that can help me understand why a girl who is being raped by her boyfriend cannot scream or struggle?

          As for evidence of struggle, is this not deliberate obfuscation of the issues? If a girl claims that she screamed and struggled and there was no witness to it, then her body would be checked to see if it is consistent with her description of her struggles. It is a necessary part of the cause of justice to make sure that technology is pushed to its limit to establish whether she had truly been hurt and make sure that full reparation is made if it is so established. What you have done is essentially ask that evidence be ignored because it can be too difficult to determine and that too is another curious thing for a lawyer, especially one ostensibly committed to justice for victims, to do.

          8, 9. That part about not applying myself suggests that condescension is like a signature strategy for you. You call generating long posts of the sort I did in response to you not applying myself? If your upset is that I’m asking you questions instead of him, it’s because I agree with the central idea of his article which is that rape cases are not open and shut, that there can be a defense and that we should consider that possibility. I have reservations about some of the things he said but I couldn’t afford the energy to examine them immediately. I’m spending energy on you because you did something very dangerous in public discourse: you whipped up emotion and drew in very negative sentiments toward the author and tried to void reason to do so. THAT I can burn energy on even when I can afford very little indeed.

          “That she deserved it.”

          The above is essentially putting words in Don Flower’s mouth. Did he say that or did you decide that he did?

          Your argument here is much better. One can see what you disagree with and why. Now, as I said, I believe that the victim can be blamed. I already explained my reason for doing so in #3. This is one of the reservations I have with Don Flower’s position. I consider the rape the girl experienced as partly her fault because going to a party full of strangers and getting drunk and high will lower her inhibitions and render her vulnerable to sexual predators. The fact that she did get drunk and high and subsequently refused to take every other person’s advice regarding her choices for the evening goes on to add responsibility for her experience to her already existing burden. Of course I could probably add more but the point is made. She made conscious choices that put her in danger of rape and when it happened, it happened with help from her.

          I don’t see prejudice here. I see you actively trying to remove any possibility of responsibility from a rational human being and that is a very difficult-to-accept move from an intelligent person.

          As for the young man, I also had my reservations about Don Flower’s position that it wasn’t rape. It is unwise to take a drunk girl to bed. Even if she initiates sex, it is hard to hold her responsible when she is lucid again. So, I would call it rape. The young man made a very bad call.

          10. Amaka, that first paragraph was insulting. Do you understand? Very insulting. What made that question crap? Your hurt feelings? Or was there some law of nature and decency and all good things that I violated asking it? I dare you to answer it so that we can see the sensibility of your position that a victim of rape can never be partly responsible for her experience.

          What were you responding to with the empathy comment?

          You say “patriarchy” like it’s a bad thing. Why is that? What prejudices and from which religions specifically?

          As for the “females” part, good for you. Perhaps there’s a reason that you disagree with what you think those other females believe? I wouldn’t mind hearing it.

          And why exactly did you ignore the prior questions to the one you unilaterally called crap?

          5+
          1. Don Flowers
            This Bros sha…

            10 gun salute for you!!!!

            I understand your “the victim can b blamed” stance, especially as it has become obvious that your intent is to protect individuals from becoming victims. It does however seem to bring in the doctrine of contributory negligence into rape cases which is and should remain strange.

            I still hold the view that the girl in the 2nd scenario was not raped as she was not too drunk to give consent.

            Read her tale very well, it was detailed and exact. Her entire faculties was at work. Sex with a woman who is too drunk to consent is rape but the clarify with which she observed events and communicated same is too beautiful to be from the mind of the woman who was too drunk to giv consent.

            Please remind me to give you an award for advocacy, we may not agree on everything but Respect.

            2+
          2. Od
            , thanks.

            As you said, we don’t always agree but we can respect each other. As you also know, I’m a Christian and I look at everything from that perspective. The way I see rape, it is the taking of sexual pleasure with an unwilling partner. As such, even when you’re already in the act itself and your partner loses interest and decides that they don’t want it anymore, your proceeding does amount to rape. Is it unreasonable of them to expect their protest to expect you to stop at that point? Yes. But does their protest matter? Yes. If they are no longer willing, it is no longer consensual.

            It’s also like our difference on marital rape. By God’s definition as the author of marriage, no one has the right to deny their partner sex. Within the marriage relationship, sex is sacrosanct and guaranteed to both partners. Abstinence for a period must be by mutual consent. But given that love is what makes a marriage work, it is not always wise or useful to insist on your right to sex in marriage. Your partner’s well-being should always be your highest priority.

            Contributory negligence. The doctrine is not Christian either. The fact that someone contributed to their own harm is not enough in itself to deny them reparation. They may do so unwittingly or ill-advisedly. There is a legitimate case for entrapment but outside of that, comparative negligence makes better sense except in cases where the defendant could clearly make a call to escape being the willing or unwilling instrument of harm to the plaintiff. That can apply in a rape case. An example is with the second rape case we’re discussing. The young man did not need to and could clearly avoid sexual congress with the young lady. He did not. Likewise, in many other rape cases, the rapist can avoid sexual congress with the victim regardless how obviously the latter is indicating a willingness to participate in sex with them. So, they will take full responsibility for their own actions without the actions of the victim doing anything to diminish their responsibility.

            2+
      2. Funmi
        Dear Mr OD,

        Why are you so invested in watering down rape and proving victims are complicit in crimes committed against them? Could you possibly be a rapist apologist?

        Kind regards,

        Funmi

        7+
        1. Od
          Hello Ms Funmi

          1. How have I watered down rape?

          2. My interest in the complicity of the victim is to ensure that all victims can protect themselves as far as possible. If rape is avoidable, it’s in everybody’s best interest to avoid it.

          3. What is a “rapist apologist”?

          3+
    5. Hephie Brown
      Let me add my thank you too..cos i wanted to reply but i didnt even know where to start from and i just gave up and was sad..melo la fe ka ninu eyin adepele..how many rape cases have i heard of…sigh..God help Nigerians and perverts and bigots all over the world.
      1+
  8. lilbaz
    I agree with you Martha. Don’t start what you can’t finish.. getting naked with a guy on d bed only shows you are ready for sex..

    Plus y lead d guy on only to shut him off. Be fair, how would you feel if he says no just when you are all horny??

    2+
    1. Funmi
      The difference is if a guy says no when a woman is horny, the guy is more likely to have the liberty of changing his mind (which is entirely within his right) without the threat of force. Simply because men are stronger than women, it is less likely that a woman will rape a man in these “heat of the moment” situations people keep bringing up.

      Man or woman, people should be allowed to change their mind without the threat of assault hanging over their heads. It’s their right. Would you rather have blue balls or be a rapist?

      9+
  9. Larz
    Is it possible to be raped after consenting initially, got naked and had foreplay? Yes.

    Is it easy to prove that in a court of law? No. I understand if people want to go ahead to press charges but they shouldnt cry foul if their story is not believed and their case is thrown out of the court.

    The whole idea that girls are forming should be thrown out by guys. Yes- most girls form. But do you wanna be wrong and get involved in a messy court case / press trial becuz you were involved with the one girl that wasnt forming? I think girls that play the no game are very dangerous and I dont think it is fair when they do that. I know of a guy who claimed to have pulled her when she said no and the girl wanted to continue foreplay, he told her know. Then he told her to leave and broke up with her shortly afterwards. I know of another guy agreed with the girl and stopped seeing her in private setting. Apparently, she didn’t like that and started complaining afterwards.

    I have warned my brother never to continue things with a girl that says no even if she was just forming. Life is too short. Even if you proceeded to have sex and she doesnt say anything, who is to say she cant come out and tarnish your image 10/20 years later.

    3+
    1. Toby
      I don’t even understand this issue of “forming”. As in, things are getting heated, enthusiastic foreplay up to the extent of getting naked, and then the girl says no, we can’t have sex? It’s hard for me to imagine.

      Dudes need to stop hanging with wishy-washy ladies. Is the guy a diviner to say, Oh, let me continue, she’s just forming? Na wa o.

      If she says no, get dressed and leave or ask her to leave. Someone else out there will have very enthusiastic and consensual sex with you without making you read her mind to know whether she’s “forming”.

      3+
      1. Larz
        When I was single, I had to give the men lectures that explains my thought patterns. Like, I am not in the business of forming and my no usually means no and yes, yes. In sexual context or outside of it. For some stubborn ones, they still assume that my no means try again (sigh).

        And on the other end of the conv, I have met with girls who claimed to have said no and were disappointed he didn’t gave up easily. The debated and arguments it has caused isnt worth mentioning here today.

        Guys: I repeat stay away from wishy washy people. Once you hear No, walk away. If agro catch you so much, walk into a club and you will prbly meet someone who is willing to sex you. It really is not that deep.

        Girls: if in a girls hang out, someone tells a story of being wishy washy just for the hell of it, or to play hard to get, dont endorse it in anyway shape or form. Dont just sit there and lol

        1+
        1. Toby
          Na wa.
          I have very little tolerance for mind games. I prefer to say what I mean, mean what I say and take it from there.
          Sure, there’ve been idiots who thought I was “too easy” for saying Yes directly and not leading them on. Anyone who thinks like that doesn’t deserve good sex.
          3+
  10. lilbaz
    Plus I think rape in marriage is wrong and there should be a law against it.
    A wife should have a say on when she wants sex and if her husband really wants it, he should be subtle enough in convincing her.
    Cos think about it, she may have had a very stressful day and desire cuddling only instead of sex.
    She may have had a terrible news that really puts her off.
    Sometimes all a woman needs is just a warm embrace…
    So I think if the couple can communicate enough, there wouldn’t be a need for forced sex in marriage.. but in circumstances where rape occurs in marriage, there should be a provision in the law for redress or remedy….
    1+
  11. Funmi
    1. This article started out talking about law and morality, then focused mainly on the law which is the fundamental flaw in this argument. The limitations of a legal definition do not take away from the immorality of an action. E.g. the recently publicised failure of our law to make provisions for widows in the event of sudden bereavement doesn’t make it right for people to leave an in-law peniless because her husband died. The fact that our law allows for children to be married off doesn’t make it right to have sex with girls who are too young to carry babies, rupture their wombs and leave them scarred and incontinent for life. The fact that our constitution’s definition of rape is narrow does not mean events which fall outside it are not rape, e.g. failure to recognise men as victims of rape, it simply means the definition should be broadened.

    2. You talked about this conception of “unlawful”, and how potentially marriage could be a loophole. Someone could interpret that same law to mean it’s the very lack of consent that makes the act unlawful. The sex cannot be unlawful in a vacuum. It’s unlawful for a reason. And as far as I know Nigerian law doesn’t legislate on heterosexual sex according to marital status. So the illegality stems from the gaining of carnal knowledge without consent, which is entirely possible within a marriage.

    3. There is definitely a sensitive conversation to be had about terms and how we view rape vs. molestation, assault etc. E.g. is penetration required for an assault to be classed as rape? However, the overarching point is that these are all forms of sexual abuse which should all be treated with equal gravity. To call something rape or not is nitpicking at the fact that this person was abused and made to engage in sexual contact without their consent. This can happen to men or women, people who initially gave consent or didn’t. We can talk about words, but this won’t take away the gravity of what sick perpetrators who assault others continue to do and get away with. You can’t demote an incident from rape or abuse to “sexual experience x regrets” because we’re not talking about one night stands with ugly guys. We’re talking about assault and force. Let’s get that straight.

    7+
    1. A.Y.O
      Your own comment makes me even happier.
      There is a much deeper, more important conversation to be had about rape, so I can’t actually believe the tripe that is this article.
      0
    2. Don Flowers
      Funmi,
      Your comment on so beautiful and it gives me the satisfaction that at least one person gets the object of this article. Both you and Larz.

      I think you are right, I might be focused too much on the legal aspect and entirely abandoned the moral aspect especially as the entire article was not discussing rape in general but rape in respect of the two scenarios above.

      Rape is reprehensible, there is no justification whatsoever not even the n verbal you referred to. I however do not believe that the mere fac that a lady cried rape is sufficient reason to destroy a man without so much as asking what exactly happened.

      As to the issue of marriage, there is no principle in law that states that the express mention of one thing totally excludes the other thing and every aspect of the law must be considered in interpreting it. As such, very mention of the term ‘legal’ in the definition of the offense means that the sex has to be illegal amongst other things before it can constitute rape.

      We do indeed need to have a serious conversation about a whole lot of things.

      Thanks again

      0
      1. Bkd
        Dear Ayo, I wish I could give a detailed narration of my own experience(s) but for time and energy , I’ll keep it brief.
        A certain girlfriend to my close pal accused me of rape . There was no way yo prove my innocence so it was her word against mine. Naturally, hers was taken. I almost lost My life to my pal’s vengefulness as he came after me with his cultist resources.
        Fast forward to 7 years later and I ask her why’ve she accused me so. Hear her reasons:
        1: “I don’t handle rejection quite well. I offer myself to you and you turning me down was the worst insult ever.”
        2:”I was afraid you’d tell him what I did. I hadn’t to beat you to it”
        3:”I know you never approved of us dating and I had given you more arsenal with which to attack my relationship.”
        4″I felt vulnerable and at your mercy. I had to protect myself”

        I am telling Thisbe story to let y’al know that sometimes, there’s always another side to the story and the guys(accused) just might be the victim especially when you consider how manipulative women can be.
        God bless.

        0
    3. MissC
      Hmmmm. Very sensitive topic. I agree that in both scenarios the girls exposed themselves to what happened them, and the men need a lesson is self control, because they are rapists wether or not they admit it.
      I know guys who the moment you say “no” wether meaning it or not, loose their erection.
      I expect that they should be able to walk away and deal with their blue balls some other way when a woman says no.

      For those arguing about a man having power over a woman and probably threatening and subduing them, have you met abusive women???? Your views on the strength of the different sexes will change. In the Same way men will tolerate nagging women when they encounter nagging men. (I have, and they take your breath away)

      1) as an adult, I should be able to clearly tell a guy I know you want to fuck me, but I’m don’t feel the same way without being scared of being a proper female.
      2) I shouldn’t be getting naked with you if I’m not willing to go the extra mile.
      3) have self control as to not allow yourself be vulnerable. I don’t drink when I’m out with people besides a lover and when I do it never exceeds a glass or a bottle as the case maybe, and people think I’m rigid. I just like being in control of the outcome of my interaction with people.
      4) don’t sleep in a strangers bed. Stay up all night if you don’t have a safe place to be at.( I’ve done it before).
      5) being nice is overrated. Some people mistake your niceness for seeking attention or flirtation. You don’t have to be Friendly with everyone.
      We shouldn’t be biased in our interpretation of events, let’s call a spade a spade. Both victims and accused are guilty
      Okay. Bye

      6+
      1. Don Flowers
        Miss C, thank you so much for your comment. I agree with most of what you have said with the only exception being whether the women were raped.

        Yes, the guys should have stopped immediately she said No, but the ladies owed it to themselves and all women society to insist on their No and not give just because.

        As I have restated over and again, this article is considering two particular scenarios as told by the victims themselves without bringing in any extraneous matters.

        My objective was to have us discuss the issues raised in fact article and agree on a proper pattern of behavior and your comment and that of some others have led the way.

        I really think we have to stop having women believe they are weaker, teach women not cower over raised voices, help women understand that even seemingly mountainous men have weaknesses and can be brought down.

        We have to discourage what has been referred to here as “wishy washie” as it reinforces stereotypes and puts women all over at risk.

        We have to teach women the concept of re-consenting so that when they find themselves with guys who want to push things just a little bit further against their consent, they will refrain from conscious or tacit acquiescence.

        4+
      2. Don Flowers
        Miss C, quite a beautiful comment you made. I agree with you on everything except whether the girls were raped. I think we can both disagree on that and still proceed to enlighten people on the need to take appropriate action.

        A man should be able to desist immediately a woman says NO. Going further after that Is just reckless and uncalled for. Some guys however will go further hoping to convince her with the display of some skills or Whatever, it behoves of a woman to restate her NO and not keep mute so as not to be thought of in a particular light.

        The main purpose of this article is to get us to discuss matters arising from it an see if we can at least come to a conclusion as to a way forward in advancing society and I think you and others have done just that, especially with your list above.

        Women need to stop believing that they are weaker, they need to understand that a seemingly mountainous man has weaknesses that can be explored to great benefits, we need to teach our women not to cower over some raised voices.

        We have to collectively decry what has been referred to here as “wishy washie” attitude as it puts women all over at risk due to the stereotypes it creates.

        You may hate me for saying this but, for such men that would go on hoping to convince her after she says No, her silence can be viewed as re-consenting, as acquiescence.

        We all owe our society a duty to put proper information out there.

        Women are not weaklings whether physically or mentally and rape is a reprehensible act.

        Thanks again.

        0
  12. Ekemini
    I quite agree with Martha. I really don’t understand what most pple are commenting. A woman willingly accepted a foreplay with a guy, only to say no just bfor penetration. How many of us would have easily done d withdrawal? Yet, that’s what most of us call rape! To me, that girl is not only foolish but stupid, so she should face the consequences of her action. What you wouldn’t eat, it is better you don’t share it with your mouth. We should be made to face the consequences
    of our decisions. If you didn’t want it, what were you looking for in a room, or is it that she was forced there? For me, it was a mutual consent and not Rape, I don’t care how some of us see it
    2+
    1. Chiebuka
      If you brought me a Macbook air and offered it to me at an incredible price, but halfway through our conversation you decided that you no longer wanted to let go of that Macbook (maybe because the new one you were expecting didn’t come thorugh or whatever) and I steal it; does that mean you had it coming for dangling such a treasure in my face and taking it away? Am I right for stealing it?
      4+
      1. Uju Ayalogu
        I love this analogy. Thank you.
        Some people seem to believe that the conduct of a woman justifies rape. And it does, to an extent. The extent where you’re communicating NON- VERBALLY.
        If she says no at any point in time, STOP!!!
        It doesn’t matter if she’s lying naked, wilding out, looks gorgeous and all too ready to be ravished. Go somewhere else!
        Rape is theft, a violation of something precious, no matter who, when, how or the state of it. It’s still something precious.
        Thank you for this Chiebuka.
        0
      2. Od
        That’s not a very good analogy. It’s too simplistic to represent the various rape situations. Compare it to the following:

        1. Relationship: getting raped by your boyfriend. You offer me a Macbook and then withdraw it. Going by the fact that you often let me have it anyway, it is not unreasonable to think that you don’t really mean it. Therefore if I do go on and take it, I’ll do so with the idea that you still meant to give it to me anyway. That doesn’t make my action right. But the fact that you HAVE let me have it before makes it reasonable to think that you didn’t really mean it.

        2. Pick-up sex: getting raped by your new date. I’m basically a stranger to you and you dangle a Macbook in front of my face. If I rob you later, it would still be wrong of me but then there is a real question about how sensible it was of you to dangle such a valuable thing in a stranger’s face. You could have suffered worse than just the loss of the Macbook.

        3. Rape by total strangers. Still using the Macbook idea. Why would you keep your Macbook on open display in public in an unsecured area? If you get robbed, the thieves will go to jail or worse if they’re caught but your carelessness may have cost you your precious Macbook.

        There are other rape situations that do not involve any dangling of anything before anybody. This is true and nothing I said here takes away from the truth of it. There are evil people in this world, people who need no excuse to harm others. But there are others who need only a push to fall over and do things you wouldn’t think them capable of. To increase your chances of safety, just don’t dangle your Macbook Air.

        :)

        5+
        1. Ojuolape
          In all 3 of your examples, you might as well say the person should not own the Macbook.
          I will try to approach it point by point.
          1. Relationship: permission given once or ten times does not mean it will be given the 11th or 12th time. Every human being has the right to say no every time the question is ‘asked’.

          2.pick up sex: so if I meet you Od, I should immediately hide everything valuable on me? Wristwatch, iPhone, ear rings? I should assume EVERYONE is a thief? Macbook analogy might seem simple but it really is that simple. You have the right to own and retain ownership of your property. And if I ask and you say No. Then I should take the no and walk. End of.
          3. Strangers: once again , you are blaming the Mac book owner. Where is a safe place then? My house? Should I only drive my car in my compound ad well? So I can only bring my Macbook out at home. And when the robbers enter my home and steal it. Is it still my fault?
          Most rapists are known to their victims. So I should hide my Macbook from my long time friend? Also if you follow the stats, rape is not about sex but power. Even in countries where women are all covered , rape still persists.

          I think it’s important to just understand that consent is key.consent can be withdrawn at Any time by either party.
          The more we push the victim blaming the less we adddres the main issues – consent and self control. Everyone must learn self control and realize No means No. Whether whispered, screamed, shouted or typed on a phone. It’s No.

          5+
          1. Od
            Hi Ojuolape.

            It would have been easier if you stuck with the Macbook example. It becomes immediately clear what we’re talking about if you did.

            1. This is a red herring. There is no argument about whether your ‘no’ should be respected or not. The argument is about whether or not it can be reasonable to expect your boyfriend to ignore your ‘no’ sometimes. Is it utterly unreasonable to expect that your boyfriend may not take you seriously when you say ‘no’ especially in the heat of the moment?

            2. Lol. Like I said, we’re talking about a Macbook Air. That is the metaphor. Stick with it. We’re not talking about Rolexes and Beemers. So, you just met me and you pulled out your Macbook Air and offered it to me. That was the analogy that I was responding to. It is the equivalent of the second rape case that Don Flowers examined in his article. When she went along with everything the boy was doing initially, that was the equivalent of offering. Now, you withdraw it. You don’t know me. I could be a psycho. If I refused to be denied, what I do to you subsequently is wrong, no question about it but it is still partly your fault for inviting my psychotic interest. Who’s to say that I would have touched you at all if I didn’t have your Macbook Air waved in my face? Again, the issue is not whether I did something wrong or right. I definitely did something wrong. The question is, were you complicit as well?

            3. It’s a waste of a debater’s time to make arguments he has already answered. Read my post again, Ojuolape. I have answered everything you said here.

            So, rapists are often acquaintances of their victims. This is not denied at all or touched in any way by this conversation. It is another red herring. The question is: could you ever put yourself at risk of rape by anything you do? If you can, what really is so terrible about the suggestion that you should therefore avoid doing such things as might put you at risk?

            Consent is key. We have heard you. Men have just been advised here to simply stay away from women who can say, ‘no’ sometimes especially when emotions are running too high for safety. My advice is better: just stay away from sex until you’re legally married and have rights to have all the sex you want. Then nobody can sue you for rape and say they said ‘no’ after you had already penetrated her and been at it for minutes and are practically insane. In case you didn’t know, someone has described that as rape too and by your “consent is key” talk, she’s right too. Which does leave us wondering just how far all this will go before it gets ridiculous to everyone.

            6+
          2. Ojuolape
            Hi , thanks for your reply. I couldn’t reply below your comment below that’s why it’s here.

            Let’s just agree you won the internet today. No point debating.

            Enjoy the rest the weekend.

            0
        2. Chiebuka
          Od, you covered four scenarios that could lead to a rape and compared it to my theft analogy. I am a little impressed, but I still disagree all the defenses you gave for the theft of the “item”. Now this may be based on my own belief; when I say something I mean it, and I do not encourage anybody to think otherwise. YES is YES and NO is NO.
          I mean if you’re talking about simplistic look at this, “Therefore if I do go on and take it, I’ll do so with the idea that you still meant to give it to me anyway. That doesn’t make my action right. But the fact that you HAVE let me have it before makes it reasonable to think that you didn’t really mean it.” I do not agree that this is a reasonable conclusion to reach seeing as I CLEARLY said no.
          The fact that you let someone use something once in a while, does not give them the right to take it when you withdraw said item. It’s wrong no matter how many pictures you want to paint.
          I can go on but the simple truth is; rape constitues a theft, a deeply personal violation and there is no excuse or defense for rape.
          3+
          1. Od
            Your response is a fallacy, specifically, the fallacy of the straw man. What happens when you commit that fallacy is that you create an argument and claim that it is the one I made and then proceed to prove it wrong.

            I never argued that it wasn’t wrong to take the Macbook Air. What I argued was that it was partly the owner’s fault that the Macbook was taken. That is what you need to prove wrong. Can you do that?

            2+
        3. Funmi
          You’ve said so many things which might require a whole post to address and I honestly can’t be bothered. One thing that really stood out to me is this Macbook analogy.

          There is a powerful sense of entitlement that underpins most of your comments. Firstly this idea that women have to dress and act according to the male gaze, which suggests the actions of potential criminals should force us to police victims clothing and behavioural choices instead of teaching people to have self control and not be rapists.

          If I just like showing my cleavage because bitches like cleavage, what gives you the right to help yourself? We live in a world where people have all kinds of fetishes. So if I wear flip flops and a nigga with a foot fetish rapes me, then I somehow contributed to my rape because I attracted him with my slender feet???

          If I make my decisions based on what could entice men and potentially provoke rape, I might as well never leave my house before some dude with a hand fetish sees my dope manicure and rapes me.

          It’s also dripping with a warped sense of entitlement that you imply that someone can override another person’s withdrawal of consent because they’ve given consent before. My body is something I choose to give you each and every time we have sex, not a gym membership you have eternal access to. Because I allowed you yesterday doesn’t mean you own it and can reject my own decision not to allow you today. It is mine, not yours and I can decide I don’t want you playing with it today even though I did yesterday. That doesn’t make me complicit in you deciding to be an unrestrained thief, which is what rape is – robbing someone of their right to choose and stealing access to their body.

          Also, fundamentally, a woman’s ability to “entice” depends on a man’s preference. So, if guy a likes curvy women and girl b is straight as an arrow, no amount of dangling Macbook will pique his interest. Now if same guy a sees girl c fully covered up but in form fitting dress compared to girl b who is on that full on naked Miley swag, he is way more likely to be aroused by girl c. Now if girl c gets raped because guy a couldn’t control himself, it is not a factor of her putting her goods on display because the very concept of “dangling” is entirely dependent on the beholder. Simply put, if I dangle a Macbook and another guy dangles a Chromebook and you like apple products, you won’t steal the other guy’s laptop.

          The arousal is dependent on the perpetrator, as is the decision to convert this impulse into a violent action. It is about power and a sense of entitlement that allows people to think you can take something because you see it and like it, the latter being completely beyond the control of the actual owner of the thing. The onus is on the thief not to steal, not on the owner not to rock their own property however they please.

          10+
          1. Funk
            “Teach men not to rape.” Fine.
            Teach robbers not to rob.
            Teach murderers not to murder.
            Teach assassins not to assassinate.
            Teach con artists not to con.
            Look, in an ideal world there’d be no crime and everyone would adhere to the good things they’re taught. But the world isn’t ideal, it’s real. So you understand the world and see it for what it is and do what you can to avoid some shit while also trying to reduce incidences of “shit” in society. Rape is wrong. The onus is not on you to prevent it. It’s never the victim’s fault.. But the world is real. If you think saying this makes me a rape apologist… Sigh.
            3+
          2. Funk
            Lol. I just realised I implied something I didn’t intend to with the lines that followed my first line and you’ll see it if you find it. So.. Read “Teach murderers” and “Teach robbers” and “Teach assassins” and “Teach con artists” as “Teach people”. Merci.
            1+
          3. Od
            Too bad you can’t be bothered. I think rape is pretty serious, that’s why I bother. Should you decide to write and I’m anywhere hereabouts I will read and share any thoughts I have. For now, however, I share my thoughts on your objections below. I broke them up and numbered them. I think you’ll recognize in each argument what part of your comment I am responding to.

            1. Incidentally, rape is a crime born of a sense of entitlement. So, that may be what you are seeing in my arguments.

            2. There are things that are reasonable and things that are not. The existence of men or women with peculiar sexual tastes and a possible leaning toward sexual predatoriness does not require anyone to dress or behave in any way. That is unreasonable especially because such people are outside the normal bracket of humans, that is, they are too few to warrant change of behavior among the overwhelming majority. The argument to tailor your behavior to accommodate them can also be used to require people to tailor their behavior to suit serial killers who have a thing for slitting throats ordinarily. Serial killers could be your neighbours or your co-workers or just the guy you walked past and if they take a fancy to your throat there’s a chance they could come after you but is it therefore reasonable to walk about in uncomfortable turtle necks or wearing thick scarves to make sure you don’t tempt them? It isn’t because the chances of encountering a serial killer at all, to say nothing of one with peculiar tastes, are very low indeed. The same applies to sexual predators of the kind you spoke of.

            But it is reasonable to expect that certain levels of exposure could tempt even a non-predatory, very normal person. A man with a healthy sexual appetite and no history of sexual predatoriness or known inclination to taking advantage of sexually vulnerable women may be tempted enough by your dress or mannerism to attempt to proposition you. Now, where he may accept your “thanks, but no thanks” and walk away and try to quench his burgeoning libido, a predator may fail to accept your rejection.

            Yes, it is ideal that the predator learn to control himself but that will not help you if he is raping you anyway. You’ll still be humiliated and no punishment he suffers will take away the sense of violation that you suffer subsequently.

            3. As for the case of unmarried sexual partners, again, rape is a crime born of a sense of entitlement. I have not said that it is right for a partner to misread you – deliberately or not – or disbelieve you and proceed to rape you. I have said that he can because of the antecedents in the relationship. The smart thing would be not to make your relationship sexual because sex unprotected by the law is dangerous. There is a very powerful libido involved, powerful enough to mess with sanity, so tampering with it can lead to unsavory consequences. Should anyone insist on it, however, there is very little I know that can protect everyone involved.

            4. Would you try your analogy with your valuables? Why don’t you walk into a bad part of town and flash your bulging purse and jewelry and leave your expensive car open with the engine running and the keys in the ignition? You don’t even need to offer anything to anybody. Just flash it and move around like maybe the robbers and potential robbers there may not be into Rolexes and Beemers and blings, like they may prefer Mercs, Rados and gold bars.

            I think you will agree that that is not a very smart idea unless you’re some kind of tough guy or you pack serious heat. You can’t help being curvy, skinny or whatever. Some predators might like one thing and not the other but for your own safety, shouldn’t you make sure that no one is getting the wrong idea about what kind of business you’re open for?

            I think that it is in everyone’s interest – especially that of potential victims – to preach not only self-control but also vigilance and proactive measures to make sure that what rape can be avoided is avoided and all rape is made inexcusable and severely punished.

            1+
  13. Thetoolsman
    When we thought up the idea that became TNC, I struggled with the fact that occasionally we would have to publish posts like this which I absolutely disagree with. But seeing how the comments have gone so far makes me happy with the work we have done here. Fact remains many like the author live in our society (as seen from the comments) and the only opportunities people like Ayo, Funmi and I have to convince/educate them come up when we create such platforms where we can even start having these conversations. That being said I hope we can all take this opportunity to learn new things today.
    13+
    1. SugaMama
      Thank you for addressing this. I had been struggling to understand why you would allow this post to be published, because it seemed rather insensitive for such a sensitive topic. This might deserve a post on it’s own and not just a comment.
      0
  14. Dr. Baruu
    ………

    “She did all she could to get his attention and when all else failed, she told him she was sleepy (which is a universal female language for “i am horny, can we have sex so i can sleep?)”

    ………

    Universal Language??? UNIVERSAL??? C’mon Bro, is there any universal language for being horny?

    So let’s say my girl wants to have sex with me, and she is feeling really horny. But I am not. And then she proceeds to say.. “hello, sweety…my one and only, my one in a million, I am feeling sleepy”… And she says so while grabbing her boobs.

    Best believe I’ll reply… “my sweet potato, my groundnut oil, oya na, enter bed go sleep”.

    Inasmuch as I believe in ‘the need to know’ before jumping into conclusions (one of my homeboys almost got lynched one time after he was accused of rape), I still think we shouldn’t candy coat evil by hiding behind the cloak of the law.

    The world is evil. Our planet is dying a slow death. Our ideals are becoming extinct, being replaced by alien ones. A thousand laws are filled with faulty craters that need to be amended.

    The killers of Emmett Till got away scot-free while Emmett Till’s Momma cried herself to sleep. Heard she died of a broken heart. Does it make the law faultless? No, it doesn’t!

    We have to put on our cloaks of humanity when engaging critically in issues bothering rape! And universal languages too.

    God bless Bro!

    8+
    1. Dr. Baruu
      *we have to take a stand against rape in any form, even if the law doesn’t.

      Do no harm to anyone…this is the humanist creed. Our species has a higher chance of survival is we imbibe this principle…

      She says NO; it simply means NO…
      Don’t allow your brain to redefine what NO means at that moment when you are lost in ecstasy…

      8+
    2. Uju Ayalogu
      I actually started skimming after i read that line. Universal language?
      When i say I’m sleepy, it means that I WANT TO SLEEP! It doesn’t mean I’m horny and I want you to ravish or rape me.
      And, you cannot USE ANY UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE for women, men or children. You can’t. It’s inherently prejudicial and yes, misogynistic.
      There are lines you really SHOULD NEVER CROSS. I don’t care if she’s a witch, I don’t care what she has done. You don’t cross those lines!
      6+
    3. Don Flowers
      Bros, you did not tell us what you would do if you wanted sex on the night in question as the two gentle men above obviously wanted sex.

      I’d like to know, it’s not necessarily supporting the manner in which they got theirs.

      2+
  15. woyi_oc
    All these debates about what the definition of rape is are just…everywhere….!!
    While i think it is necessary to have these discussions, sometimes I just get tired of the whole thing. New definitions of rape keep popping out, like new android phones.
    Yes, any sexual activity that isn’t consensual or is obtained by blackmail or threats etc… is RAPE. But some women no dey help matters for other women, sha. This talk of saying No while meaning YES is actually one of the things that “educate” some men to think that ALL women are like that. So when a guy whose been with so man “no-means-yes girls” meets a woman who’s a “no-means-no girl”, his prior experiences lead him to commit a crime. I’m not saying that’s always the case but I’m sure it has been for some men.

    Its because of all these topics that I want to support post wholeheartedly. ’cause if the only time everyone had consensual sex was in the institution of marriage, all these “is this rape? what about this…is this also rape?” type discussions won’t be needed, maybe.
    But no matter what, people will always have sex. Ain’t no way the whole world can be celibate. The urges are real, yo.

    Also I am sure a number of these “no-means-yes girls” are actually that way because of fear of being seen as “easy”, or “sluts”….

    I know my points are all over the place. I just typed as the thoughts came.

    ps: when i say “girls” I actually mean “adult female humans who have reached the age of consent”.

    1+
  16. Stephanie
    The most important element in the offense of rape is consent.
    Consent in ordinary parlance means permission or agreement for something to happen, that brings us to how consent can be gotten which we all know it’s either expressly or impliedly.
    Where a girls consents to sex impliedly as has been shown in the two scenarios shown by the writer, my question is can she at some point in the act claim she has withdrawn consent impliedly too?
    The letters of the law simply states …..’without consent’
    I think the law did not anticipate a scenario where the girl may wish to withdraw consent thus it will not be right to induce the concept of withdrawal into the law where it is not expressly written.
    I think even the courts, in the course of interpreting the law in cases of rape or generally the concept of consent has represented that consent can not be withdrawn. (Not that I know of).
    Even if consent can be given impliedly, it can only be withdrawn expressly, the girls in the instant case gave consent by implication and thus tried to withdraw impliedly too.
    I will suggest that the law criminalizing rape should be reviewed to include situations where a person can withdraw consent at anytime before penetration.
    My ten cents though.
    1+
  17. Toby
    Like Funmi said, the fact that our laws do not recognise rape within the confines of marriage doesn’t mean that marital rape isn’t real.

    Let me now disagree with your points in the order you raised them:

    I counter what you say in the 13th paragraph: “defense of the individual accused of rape draws the ire of the public”. The comment thread of this post proves otherwise. People will rather blame the victim- someone in the comments used the phrase “asking for it”.

    I wonder what kind of scrutiny you want again “for every rape story”. Rape victims are subjected to invasive and offensive scrutiny: what she was or was not wearing, whether she was given the “green light” (I hate that phrase so much), whether she’d said Yes before saying No, whether she even said No at all or just lay there. What you suggest is in fact blaming the victim.

    “Can and should the law allow her to withdraw consent at this point? If yes, wouldn’t the chemical composition of the youngman’s brain at that very instant entitle him to a defence of insanity against a charge of rape as he cannot be said to be in entire control of his faculties at the time?”

    Yes, everyone, male or female gets to keep the power of consent no matter what is happening, even if penetration has occurred and the actual sex is happening right then. There is no time when it’s too late to revoke consent.

    Defense of insanity? Really? Self-control is what separates us from the animals. Believe it or not, the young man is still in control of his faculties. He can choose to stop, extricate himself from the lady who just told him no, and put his clothes on.

    “Was the No an emphatic and unmistakable one?” Bruh. Okay, let me take that question seriously. Use your words. You can ask those questions the moment you’re not sure. Pause for a second and say, “Did you say No? Should I stop?” A lady who wants you to continue what you’re doing will let you know she wants you to continue. She might say, “Don’t stop.”

    There is no universal female language. What the hell does that even mean? I’m sleepy = I’m sleepy. I’m sleepy /= I’m horny.

    “You see, her mother died early in her childhood and her relationship with her father was somewhat strained making her crave emotional validation and sometimes attachment from dangerous individuals. Is it then possible that she is drawn to abusive relationships?” This has nothing to do with whether she was raped or not. Straw man argument.

    “Is it possible that the vile youngman was himself the victim in this particular story?” Wow. You really went all the way with this.

    “She was highly intoxicated…has a past with drugs…We cannot suddenly forget about this when determining what did or did not happen.” Actually, yes we can. Her alcohol/drug history has nothing to do with whether she was raped. Straw man argument.

    “The degree of the bruises is what distinguishes consensual sex from rape”. False. Vaginal fluids are not only secreted during consensual sex, it happens sometimes in forced sexual encounters. The theory is that it’s the body’s way of trying to protect itself from severe injury. Also, as someone else stated, depending on the size/dimensions of the genitals in question, there can be serious bruising in consensual sex as well. Go check out the comments on that TNC article about size that was published a while back.
    At best, bruising is circumstantial evidence, and not definitive.

    Dear Don Flowers, you really need to examine yourself and your beliefs. In questioning everything, question yourself also. This article, whether you intended it or not, is full of victim blaming and rape apologia. This is why victims of rape and sexual assault have such a difficult time being believed, and getting through the ordeal.

    And that is how I posted >600-word comment on an article.

    10+
    1. Don Flowers

      Dear, twas nice reading your. Typed a really wonderful reply until this bloody Glo ntwrk took it away from me but I will try to do so again.

      1. Marital rape I real and women are suffering it as we speak, however the law does not provide a remedy for it, I can’t be blamed for that. As I hav said, such a woman m have a remedy in an action based on assault.

      2. I have said over and again that I do not subscribe to victim blaming and I cannot be held responsible for the views of others. I have however come under personal attack for daring to air my opinion with the most glaring being the comments from A.Y.O and the multiple applause she garnered (P.S. I don’t think she’s a lawyer or perhaps she’s one of these newbie).

      The scrutiny I seek is a scrutiny of the tale that does not amount to victim blaming. Remember where I said that the fact that I do not agree that she was taped doesn’t make the experience of the girl in fact second scenario any less traumatic? (maybe not in those exact words).

      I want a society in which people who need help will receive such help and not be judged on what they did or did not do, a society that can unbiased and unashamedly determine issues and deal with them without further hurting the party who claims to be the victim even if her tale is incredible.

      3. The defense of insanity is a defense that is available to an accused person. It may seem far fetched now but wait until a psychologist opens it up and you would be surprised.

      4. I personally think a man should have the character to cease and desist immediately a woman says No. It is the proper thing to do, however, in the heat of the moment guys usually beg, I think I read a comment / article here sometime ago where a guy said something about pleading for just the tip of the shaft to go in.
      Some guys would want to kiss and nibble hoping that the ecstasy will make her change her mind. I do not subscribe to rape but this article was written to enlighten on the legal regime affecting tape and to apply the principles on two rape scenarios. It presumes the fact that the (alleged) rape has occurred.

      You suggested that a woman should be allowed to withdraw consent even during coitus. If this view is accepted, any further dipping after she said NO will amount to rape. It would mean every sex is capable of being tape depending on how the lady feels afterwards.

      5. As to whether the NO was emphatic, there have been a million situations where consent was revoked and subsequently granted afresh. Yes, your suggestions as to stopping and asking should be applauded and applied but when not applied, the NO has to be repeated and action taken otherwise consent will be presumed to have been granted afresh.

      6. Perhaps I’m the only male here who has gotten that line on several occasions and it is good to know it’s not universal.

      Y’all ladies should perhaps admit to the subtle ways in which you communicate your need when there is a guy around to do the job.

      7. The history of the young is relevant in this issue but you want to throw away the history of the girl? Pretty unfair I think.

      Drug and alcohol abuse has its effects, some of which are long term. Her challenging upbringing certainly had an effect on her decision making process. These are relevant (psychological) factors in determining whether she wanted the sex or not. She was drunk on the night = reduced inhibition.

      7. Yes, serious bruising is possible in consensual sex, it is however more consistent with non consensual sex. Bruising is in no way circumstantial. Trust me, I know. Presence or absence of Bruising and the presence / absence of seminal fluids are integral in proving rape unless there are eye witnesses, and even then, you still need help prove penetration.

      8. Oh, I forgot. The past of the assailant is relevant to show history or similar pattern of behavior. You cannot deny that it did not affect your evaluation of the issue but it does not in itself prove that he committed this one. She sought his attention and finally got him to leave his game. Is it at possible that she seduced him?

      9. I examine myself regularly and by putting this article here, I have given my peers the opportunity to examine me. So I think I’m good on the examination part.

      I find victim blaming repulsive and if you would remove your bias for a few seconds, you will realise that this article avoids it, I cannot be accused of the offenses of others. It is in no way a rape apologia.

      My previous reply was much better, God will not forgive Glo

      0
      1. Toby
        1. I agree.

        2. The anger you raised is probably due to the fact that we’re tired. We’re tired of hearing, “What about the accused?” in cases of rape. What makes it more maddening is that rape/sexual assault is probably the only crime in which the intent and personality of the victim is scrutinized, and people are eager to exonerate the perpetrator. That may not have been your intent, but it’s true. Nobody ever says, “Let’s think about the kidnapper here. What if the [abducted person] agreed to go with him and later said no?” It’s tiring and sad, and honestly, we need less of that, not more.

        3. The defense of insanity exists for extenuating circumstances. I’ve never read or heard of it being successfully used in a rape trial, because it’s a terrible line of defense.
        “Your Honor, they were already having sex and his penis was already in her vagina [or other body part] and then she said no. My client was insane with lust and couldn’t stop. Please find him not guilty by reason of insanity.”
        Would any judge or jury agree? I think not. It doesn’t make sense to use insanity in this scenario, not legally, not morally.

        4. Let’s use Snow’s beautiful analogy of drinking tea. I’m allowed to drink the tea halfway and say, “You know what, I’m not feeling this tea, I don’t want to drink this tea anymore”. I’m allowed to reject that tea without having the tea forced on me.
        Why would I want to change somebody’s mind about having sex with me? No is no, and it’s that simple. If you don’t want, I walk away. Someone out there wants to enthusiastically bone me without being wishy-washy about it.

        “Depending on how the lady feels afterwards” Ah, here it is. I think a lot of guys are afraid of retroactively being accused of rape. The solution here is to be attentive, listen and use your words. Like I said earlier, a woman who wants you to continue will tell you to continue. She’ll hold you closer, probably pin you with her legs. She will verbally and nonverbally give consent. If she’s just lying there like a log, and not feeling it, ask, “Are you okay? Should I stop?” Wait for an answer. If she doesn’t say “Yes, do continue”, then that’s your answer.
        Having blue balls is better than being a rapist.

        By the way, Use Your Words applies to everyone, both male and female. Talking about sex is difficult, especially when having sex, but it néeds to be done to make sure everyone is on the same page. Nobody is a mind reader to know whether a girl is forming or not- that’s just annoying. Good lord.

        5. Are you saying that if she says No once, and doesn’t say it, then consent is presumed to have been granted afresh. That’s not true. One No is enough. One No would be enough for me to stop and say, “Wait, what?” Being attentive, using your words.

        6. I don’t know about other ladies, but there’s nothing subtle about how I communicate that need. I’ve been known to startle my boyfriend with, “I want to have sex, do you?” because he wasn’t picking up what I was putting down and I was tired of guessing. It doesn’t even have to be spoken. If a lady takes off her clothes, comes towards you and starts kissing you, that right there is enthusiastic consent. There’s no need for doublespeak or mind-reading.
        Maybe men need to stop hanging with wishy-washy ladies, and find people who will say what they want, when they want it. Even if she’s a little shy, taking the lead and asking the questions will help them speak up.

        7. I actually didn’t consider the drug and alcohol history of either the guy or the girl, when looking at the case. I do agree that alcohol intake around the time of the incident is important. Reduced inhibition makes for better sex, honestly. BUT. Reduced inhibition does not mean completely blotto or completely incapable of giving consent. Even if I’m drunk, I can still give consent. If someone is too drunk to say either Yes or No, then that person is incapable of giving consent, and yes, that is rape. Besides, why have sex with someone who is too drunk out of their minds to appreciate your skillz?

        7. Bruising is important, but not definitive. The confounding effects of genital size and protective secretion of vaginal lubricant are too much for it to be definitive. It can help make a case, but a case can still be made (or unmade) without it.

        8. I really didn’t take the guy’s past into account. I do agree that it’s important to show a pattern of behavior. If she sought his attention and got him to drop his game, and later became ambivalent, it would have been easiest and best to simply ask. Blue balls > rape.

        I feel like writing USE YOUR WORDS on my forehead so everyone can get it.

        How can I have sex with someone who’s not sure whether they want to have sex with me? I can’t o. They have to want me and tell me (or show me) they want me. Anything else is unthinkable to me.

        9. I feel your pains on using Glo. I don’t comment as much as I want to, because it is so frustrating to type something out and have it vanish into the interwebs. I usually type in a word processor and then copy and paste.

        General Note: Clearly there’s a very big problem with sex education. We’re taught only the mechanics and not how to navigate the emotional and mental minefields surrounding sex. There’s so much talk about abstinence, that nobody is talking about best practice for those who are definitely already having sex. If you’re having problems with expressing yourself sexually, or with understanding what I’m talking about, might I suggest Dan Savage’s Savage Love sex column. Reading how real people dealt with issues surrounding sex made me better at understanding myself and understanding sex in general. There’s no manual for this, but we have to learn it somehow, or we risk running doing terrible things to ourselves and others.

        Oh lord, now it’s a thousand words. I feel the need to apologize.

        5+
        1. woyi_oc
          “I’ve been known to startle my boyfriend with, “I want to have sex, do you?” ”

          I think that’s ’cause most women aren’t so forthcoming about their desire for sex. especially in Nigeria. Even in the toasting of babe phase, i’ve seen women say no they don’t want….with vex! Then weeks or months later THEY kiss the guy and/or tell his friends “i expected him to try harder”. I have a friend who was with a woman and after a lot of back and forth, they did the deed. After he asks why she was forming and she said she didn’t want him to think less of her. So the wishy washy women you speak of are just…i guess looking out for themselves..? And a few women actually say no and expert the guy to be a bit forceful to get their consent.

          From what I’ve seen, there’s a good amount of women who would either stay silent or say no when asked verbally. I remember having a conversation with a feminist friend who said “a guy must ask a chick if he can kiss her to make sure the air is clear. not just assume.”. Then I went ahead to ask other women how they felt: the answers ranged from “i dunno, it seems awkward, cant he just read the mood?”, “when the mood is right, he’ll know” to “which kain..?? Why is he asking? he shouldn’t have to ask na. honestly if he asks I’ll say no even if i wanted to before”. And that’s just kissing oh! As for avoiding the wishy washy women and looking fir the straight to the point ones, i think there are more of the former than the latter in Nigeria. But that’s just me.

          But yeah, blue balls over being called rapist any day. The brushing my mommy will give me if she hears my name and rape in the same sentence, ehn…!!

          2+
          1. Toby
            Thing is, the only way we can change that mentality of “being direct = being easy” is to talk about it, and be honest in our interactions with people.

            I’ve been judged by one guy I datedn because he thought I was too easy. He wanted the thrill of the chase and when I didn’t run and expect him to chase me, he thought I was cheap and started treating me accordingly. So I dumped his ass.

            People who expect doublespeak and mind reading don’t deserve good sex. Someone who thinks less of me for agreeing to have sex with them does not get to have sex with me. If we started making it clear, maybe people would get the memo.

            I understand what those ladies that are forming are trying to avoid. Even the one I asked directly complained that I was being too direct, and I was like, I was tired of doing the sex pantomime and I just needed to know so I could get on with the rest of my day.

            Nobody has to make a long-ass speech about consent, or sign forms clarifying that the sex they’re about to have is consensual. In the moment, if you kiss someone and they put their arms around you and kiss you back, that’s consent. If they don’t react or they push you away, then someone needs to say something.

            Life is too short and stressful for me to be trying to second-guess myself and my actions in the name of sex or toasting. I like you, talk your own. Na wa for people o. Must everything be an ordeal?

            4+
          2. Bkd
            Hey T0bi, I hope you read this. This I is what the average Migerian guy has to deal with. If you depend on a woman’s words to figure her out, you’re likely to misread her. You have to rely on her body language and most times, it’s not always the same with her spoken words. Nigerian women are always saying one thing and meaning the opposite. That’s the harsh reality. Kudos to women like you who are real.
            0
        2. Bkd
          I don’t think you have had a lot sexual encounters with the ladies. Ask any guy who has been around and he’ll tell you from experience that large majority of ladies always use the word “no” to mean “yes”, 0r “stop” to mean “continue”. I have even had a girl scold me for not putting pressure when she resisted my sexual advances. I think it’s a Nigerian thing, perhaps?
          0
          1. Toby
            I don’t know if it’s a Nigerian thing, but it’s definitely an immature thing to do. Perhaps it’s a “majority of ladies”, but not all ladies are like that either. It depends on you as a person, to decide whether you want to have to do guesswork all the time, or you want to do the work upfront and find you a lady who will say what she means and mean what she says, one who will enthusiastically agree to have sex with you.

            If you really like the lady who scolded you for not pushing against her resistance, you could gently educate her, let her be aware that crossing other people’s boundaries is uncool and not your thing, so she needs to be real with you and let you know what the deal is. Or… you could skip the stress and find a woman whose Yes is Yes and whose No is No.

            Some guys like to play the guessing game. I personally don’t. Like I said above, life is too short for that ish.

            0
  18. Snow
    It all boils down to consent, THEY BOTH SAID “NO”, all other explanations are not valid when it comes to consent.
    For your insanity card, you don’t plead insanity for just a particular period of time, and then a court appointed therapist would be mandated to ascertain your insanity claims. So except one is a sociopath, goodluck trying that.

    I have this teacup theory when it comes to consent; I compare sexual consent to having a cup of tea. You wouldn’t force or pressure someone into having a cup of tea, and you can tell when someone wants a cup of tea or not. If someone says they want a cup of tea one minute, they can change their mind the next and should not be pressured to drink the tea. And even when someone is already drinking the cup or tea, they can at any point stop and say they no longer want the tea. If this sounds simple, then so is the issue to consent to sex.
    PAINFUL AS IT IS TO HEAR, IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE.

    I believe out rape laws need to be reviewed and something i would want to be added is a thing “AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT STANDARD”, someone should google that up and see what I mean.

    7+
  19. Sparks and Tingles
    @a-y-o’s response was condescending and somewhat rude, resorting to personal attack/mockery is against the norm on TNC. I am disappointed that applauded her without cautioning her tone.

    Except for the “I’m sleepy =I’m horny” line, I think Don Flowers did a great job articulating things guys like me are afraid to say to the judgemental, sentimental and severely prejudiced society.

    When I was 8 years old, my 7year old cousin told my parents that I slept on her and that was it, nobody cared to listen to what I had to say, I was beaten black and blue, I was eventually hospitalized. Of course I didn’t “sleep on” my cousin, she lied.

    I agree that rape is a reprehensible criminal act and there is no justification for it but the “victim’s” story alone shouldn’t be a sufficient basis for sending people to jail or ending their careers.

    5+
    1. thetoolsman
      Condescending? Maybe? Rude? Definitely not – for me. And I think for many too seeing as you’re the only person who has pointed this out but notwithstanding, this is the reason why our community rules are not based on things we consider relative. For me or any of the admins to caution any member, there has to be no doubt whatsoever as to what they’ve done wrong.
      4+
      1. Od
        I agree that the behavior you should censure should be generally agreed upon and independent of individual whim. But I’m picking a bone with your “for many” statement. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I typically overlook personal attacks in comments I address myself to because I consider them a waste of my time but it doesn’t mean that they’re not there. I found her responses rude as well. But, as you said, TNC has a culture. That culture decides what’s rude and what isn’t.
        5+
      2. shocked
        this is many months later but I definitely wanted to add that I also found her tone condescending and it made it hard to read. While I generally agreed more with her points than the author – he came across as more mature. Her constant use of “boy” and other belittling terms were distracting and immature in my opinion. When he responded that he wanted to re address her points but couldn’t get over the insults, I applauded in my head.

        If you truly believe your case to be right, try to get it across without putting the other person down.

        0
    2. A.Y.O
      Dear Sparks & Tingles, it is a shame you found my first comment rude and/or condescending.
      No personal attacks there however; just my opinion.
      In any case, you might feel different if you were yourself a rape survivor.
      I found this entire article painful and very insulting- and I’m not even a rape survivor.
      Your one experience is such a shame. I’m sorry to hear that. That doesn’t justify this awful article.
      When does the victim’s story alone end careers or send people to jail? In Nigeria or are you borrowing from the US/UK?
      3+
          1. Bkd
            Dear Ayo, I wish I could give a detailed narration of my own experience(s) but for time and energy , I’ll keep it brief.
            A certain girlfriend to my close pal accused me of rape . There was no way yo prove my innocence so it was her word against mine. Naturally, hers wasn’t taken. I almost lost MTV life to my pal’s vengefulness as he came after me with his cultist resources.
            Fast forward to 7 years later and I ask her why’ve she accused me so. Hear her reasons:
            1: “I don’t handle rejection quite well. I offer myself to you and you turning me down was the worst insult ever.”
            2:”I was afraid you’d tell him what I did. I hadn’t to beat you to it”
            3:”I know you never approved of us dating and I had given you more arsenal with which to attack my relationship.”
            4″I felt vulnerable and at your mercy. I had to protect myself”
            I am telling Thisbe story to let y’al know that sometimes, there’s always another side to the story and the guys(accused) just might be the victim especially when you consider how manipulative women can be.
            God bless.
            0
    3. Toby
      I’m sorry for what they did to you. You were just a kid. Even if you did what your cousin said you did, it was no reason for them to abuse you in the way they did. I hope you’ve healed from that horrible experience.
      4+
      1. Sparks and Tingles
        I haven’t healed, I don’t think I would ever heal from it. It is a good kind of trauma though, the type that weakens the stiffness between my legs whenever I hear “no”. Thank you Toby.
        2+
  20. Anon for today
    So am just going to drop this here, i left lagos to benin to break up with my bf cos we were having endless issues and i was tired, the day i broke up with my him i discovered i was pregnant, i told him it didnt make any diff that i couldnt be in the relationship anymore he begged me but eventually agreed, he said it was fine we would be friends so i told him to get me pills i was pretty scared and i cried myself into a panic attack but i knew i had to do that so he got me the pills, i told him i would go to my friends house to spend the night he said there wasnt any need for that, we were friends so i could stay the night i told him i wanted to take the pills that night cos i was scared and i needed some1 to be with me, he told me not to that i was traveling back to lagos the next day and it would be stressful for me so i took my bath and slept off, fastward later that night i woke up cos i felt him robing his dick on my butt, i wasnt naked i was wearing boxers and a top, i told him to stop i pushed him away and he pinned me face down to the bed and forced himself on me i didnt even know how to feel, after he was done i stood up went to clean up it hurt and i felt like crying but i didnt want to give him the privilege of seeing me cry so i went back to the bed five minutes later he tapped me to tell me he thinks i should take the pills now, i just looked at him i couldnt say anything i just slept back woke up by 6am and got ready to leave for the park, now most people would say what he did wasnt rape cos i spent the night in his house and he was my bf but he didnt have my consent he forced himslef on me and it was premeditated because that was y he didnt want me to take the pills at first so he could have his way, am fine though am not 1 to dwell on emotional setbacks or traumas.
    1+
  21. Don Flowers

    Hi, first off, I’m proud that you didn’t allow what it did to affect you. I wished you had reported him though as the fact that most women don’t report rape is what leads to its prevalence on society.

    As I hav tried so very hard to show above, my view on rape is that it is inexcusable. And the view expressed in this article are entirely in relation to the two scenarios although a part of it can be used as a mirror to view other scenarios.

    Your boyfriend or ex boyfriend above committed the offense of rape and deserves to be punished.

    Don’t blame yourself for staying the night because anybody would have. He’s someone you knew and trusted.

    You wrote: “i felt him robing his dick on my butt, i wasnt naked i was wearing boxers and a top, i told him to stop i pushed him away and he pinned me face down to the bed and forced himself”.

    The above shows the absence of consent. Once again, I’m sorry you had to be through that.

    2+
    1. Anon for today
      Thank u, i would have loved for him to get punished for what he did but the way our legal system is built it would have been a waste of my physical and emotional strength, when i told a friend what he did she confronted him about it and he said he knew what he did was wrong but i was fond of denying him sex in the past, it was a terrible breakup he went around saying stuffs about me and called me to rain curses on me, it all ended with me calling him over so he would stop tarnishing my name but instead he kept on insulting to my face i lost it and i hit him, it was terrible but my friends were around to calm the situation i told him to leave but he started begging which he always does but after all that had happened i would be mad to take him back so i bluntly told him no my friends said i was heartless cos he really begged me and he knows how to play the victim part, i couldnt even say abything to them i was just happy he was nolonger in my life, now he just prank calls me and pretends he didnt know he was calling added my frnds back on bbm telling them he misses them, jts just sad and pathetic i wonder how i ended up with him i dodged a bullet and am grateful to God for that, am with some1 else now and am happy so whatever hurt he wanted me to carry on with didnt work. P.S: sorry for the long reply am an active follower but quiet when it comes to social media
      1+
  22. Dr. Baruu
    Don Flowers, you don’t get it…do you? (*no subs intended*)

    It isn’t about what I will do at the moment. It is about right and wrong. It is about not justifying evil with bogus Universal theories.

    A Brother’s Scenario: Heck, being the type of person I am today, who knows the implications of his actions, I will jejely respect myself, find my bottle of vaseline, open my web browser, and Google ‘Cherokee D’ass’. About a fraction of a second later and Viola, Her pictures show up! I will relax calmly and jerk off so hard that all the penile juices drip off my gun. Afterwards, I’ll walk over to the bed and sleep in peace, hoping not to die of anger and vexation. Maybe when I wake up, we will have a sit-down. Probably call off the relationship for denying me midnight kpanshing.

    But my brother Don Flowers, it safer for me to go down this horrible konji-esque lane than to go ahead and have sex with her (against her wish) and later justify my actions by propounding Universal theories that her ‘NO’ was a ‘YES’ because my John Thomas was hard and erect and she was wet and dripping.

    But if the Devil decides to take over, I won’t have a problem being labeled a rapist. I will never come up openly (or even secretly) to give reasons to justify my actions. C’mon Bro, that’s the height of slut-shaming, the depth of phucktardry. I simply had sex with her against her wish, Period!

    It isn’t about whether she wore seductive lingeries. Or she was giving me those pornstar tonguing. Naa, Naa, Naa. She said NO before penetration, so if I go ahead to penetrate and blame the devil or some theory afterwards, then my brother, it’s been for me!

    Have you a lovely Palm Sunday Bro!

    6+
  23. No-one
    My first sexual encounter was rape too, and it was a friends friend I was 18 and naive, never even kissed a guy yet. I however didn’t find this article offensive except for the “universal language” part. sorry about your experience I can only imagine because we all experience pain differently. However we should learn to like said, call a spade a spade. Because you’re decent doesn’t mean every other person is. The world is a wicked place and people are selfish. Even the bible says the heart of man is desperate and wicked.
    protect yourself !!!
    Celibacy is key but isn’t exactly practised. Even though the victim dressing or behaviour shouldn’t permit rape, we should educate ourselves on dressing and acting right. If you become a victim, it’s no longer relevant that you thought you dressed or acted right or according to trend. Society will still use it as basis to judge you and further increase your hurt.
    2+
  24. Dr. Baruu
    And some folks talking about a girl putting herself in a position where she could easily be raped…Psst!

    Well, lemme tell you a simple story.

    Poppa TK was kidnapped not too long ago. A month before Poppa TK was kidnapped, he bought a brand new SUV and also got one for his wife. Then a month later, Poppa TK got kidnapped and was released about 8 days later.

    Now should I go to Poppa TK and tell him…

    “hey Poppa TK, sorry for what happened. It shall not be well with ur enemies. But Poppa TK, you shouldn’t have bought the SUV for yourself and your wife. Poppa TK, you placed urself in a position to be kidnapped because you bought those sleek rides”

    Best believe I will be a fool to say so.

    And that’s how the Almighty will see us when we go about blaming rape victims why they dressed seductively, why they went to a guy’s house to have sex, and so on.

    Heck, we should blame the victims of the Russian plane crash for putting themselves in a position to die in a plane crash by choosing to travel by air instead of taking a bus. Or a ship. Or a camel.

    Let’s go on a ‘blame game’ spree.

    Evil is evil; rape is Rape. NO is NO. It is what it is!

    8+
  25. Toby
    Clearly there’s a very big problem with sex education. We’re taught only the mechanics and not how to navigate the emotional and mental minefields surrounding sex. There’s so much talk about abstinence, that nobody is talking about best practice for those who are definitely already having sex.

    If you’re having problems with expressing yourself sexually, or with understanding the issues surrounding consent, might I suggest Dan Savage’s Savage Love sex column. Reading how real people dealt with issues surrounding sex made me better at understanding myself and understanding sex in general.

    There’s no manual for this, but we have to learn it somehow, or we risk doing terrible things to ourselves and others.

    2+
  26. Seriously...
    Tim only has sex with people who are of age, sober and give consent.

    Tim does not form mindreader and takes “no” at face value.

    Guys (and girls) be like Tim.

    9+
  27. Uche

    the comments here are too long to read, and sadly many of them make me want to cry. I wish we were forced to put our faces on our comments just for this post, so I would know those people who not to argue with in future. Let me say that my two experiences with sexual abuse were with friends, who later came back to apologise because they knew in their hearts that what they did was wrong. One was my boyfriend at the time, the other was a really close friend. I was in a room with the both of them because I trusted them, I had in fact, just kissed my close friend, expecting it to stop at that, but it didn’t. For the fact that he had the presence of mind to apologise, albeit a year later, I’m just going to assume everyone knows the right thing, but chooses to be wicked on purpose. I remember telling another friend a while later about it and what he did was to ask me the same set of stupid questions some people here are asking. Like if I struggled. What will struggling do? I will just end up with bruises for nothing and they will still have their way, so whats the point? Like why was I in a room alone with them? Boyfriend? Close friend? Why shouldn’t I be in a room with them again? Note: one was in an office. Not even in an actual room. I’m one of the most decently dressed people around (no boobs, never anything tight, yet I’m still subject to inappropriate remarks), so what gives?

    Meanwhile, since we’re all rendering opinions, I just have these foods for thought.

    4+
  28. Olayinka
    I cannot remember how many times I tried to go all the way with my boyfriend and he turns me down by telling me how tired he was. And we would have made out gan o. And there were times I felt his stiff penis even while saying he was tired. I always roll off and cuddle. I don’t grab his penis and insert into my honeypot just because I was wet and he was turgid. It hurts my ego but I do not force myself on him. So what is all this talk about putting the girl in the guy’s position?
    And please who says men cannot stop at the point of penetration? That is nonsense. In my early days of sexual exploitation, that was what I did the most. Make out naked with boys and grinding them too. Naked. Penis on clitoris. While telling them I didn’t want to go all the way. And none of them ever forced his way in by mistake. Not one. So abeg which kain talk be dis?
    5+
  29. Juryguy
    Tell me, how many times have both scenes bin re-enacted with u and ur madam. Altho, while I don’t agree d wife in d couple can be raped, I believe that non-consensual penetration is also a form of coerced sex. Hence it is paradox to say that an husband that has a non-consensual sex with his spouse has committed a crime; however, one would need to searc much deeper like the object clause that precludes men from being said to have bin raped, according to the law, to bring them to book. Example is: the man can be charged for domestic violence, since Dere is a form of bruise (howbeit in d genital; which most women would rather hide than go to an hospital for medical examination) on d woman to prove the violence, which is punishable under the law.
    0
  30. Vex
    D comments on here are just too long! I will take d tym to read dem later. I still maintain dt d lady in d second story was raped but first I have some questions to ask. For d second story, may I be granted d liberty to assume, from his actions, that the young man could possibly be one of those with questionable sexual tastes. Maybe hez into BDSM, D/s, rape, whatever, as his aggression definitely indicates that hez used to being dominant and he seems to even love d fact dt she struggled, put up a fight so he could assert his dominance over her. Now, d lady in question consented to sex, wanted it enough to get naked with him, and still did not necessarily say no at d first signs of aggressiveness. But. Let me now assume (again) dt d lady in question is not into said sexual activities and because she didn’t like it, she tried to put a stop to it, “…..He wanted to finger me and dt was wen I held his hand, looked him in d eye and told him to stop.” Maybe he thought (assumed) it was just her playing because contrary to her words, she was also into it due to d fact dt she consented to sex with him despite repeated warnings of his wierd sexual tastes. In dis case, he probably should have asked to confirm, no? But wen a lady “holds your hand, looks into ur eyes and tells you to stop”, it’s only logical that you should stop. But he doesn’t stop. He pins her down by the neck,pulls down her boxers and continues playing his sick game with her. She struggles, he enjoys it and enjoys using d force of his size and strenght to subdue her maybe because he thinks she’s into it and faking or will be once she sees how great it is to be dominated. At dis point she’s subdued, accepting her fate because shez paralysed with(by?) fear. We all know dt dere r generally 2 responses of the nervous system to fear, induced by adrenaline, fight or flight. But have u ever been so paralysed by fear u remain immobile even though ur brain is telling (trying to tell) you to fight/fly? Imagine suddenly being pushed off d sidewalk onto d highway into the path of a trailer that’s moving at high speed and ur just standing dere, rooted to d spot (think deer caught in headlights),watching d trailer come at you but not moving because ur so paralysed by fear ur dt brain processes are too distorted and jumbled to make any sense of and ur not getting d msg. So likewise, she’s pushed off d platform and into the path of an on-coming weird sex train, and she can’t pull herself up fast enough to not get hit because she’s caught in d headlights and her brain’s thinking,”is dis really happening to me?” (Maybe). (Hope analogous enuf) Shez not moving, just laying dere, numb , he gets up and takes off his boxers and tells her,”see d size of my dick,ur gonna enjoy dis!” (I know men r inordinately proud of deir Johnny Bravo’s, d more macho he is d better!) Now she’s probably even more scared. He lubes himself so dt he can penetrate more easily but she’z not been prepared so shez very tight and his penetration very is painful esp as young John is on d large side. She doesn’t move, no struggle, no resistance. He does his thing, gets up and leaves. Now imagine your wife, in d mood for sex, completely willing until you go all cave man on her. Now shez not willing anymore but ur still roaring to go. She tries to stop but u think shez just playing witchu. She struggles and it just gets u more excited. N den she capitulates. But she doesn’t participate, just lies dere as if to say,”shey u want to do, oya do! Just do lemme go!” Now as u guys have said, deres nufin like marital rape according to d law, but wd u call dt consensual sex btw d man and his wife, or rape? Was consent given,(full or partial)? Did she have a right to refuse her husband because she did not like his aggressiveness? Is it not rape because she was willing initially and gave consent? because the only difference btw d 2 scenarios is dt d lady and d pirate are not married. Since we are not in d ages whr a woman wd just come,lie down, spread her legs and wait for her lord and master to finish pounding (maybe yam or cocoyam) and go, and we have supposedly evolved from barbarism and can now control our (mindless) animalistic tendencies which led to activities that we no longer consider humane, shdnt we classify dt sort of behaviour under barbaric and caveman-ish/ic?(@cavey help me out here) and out of place in dis day and age? and after all’s said n done, shouldn’t we shd take into consideration d meaning of sex? I’m too lazy to look dt up right because I’m just dashing all dis down in a hurry(dnt wanna 4get) but I’m pretty sure somewhr in d definition lies the words, “….and mutual enjoyment and satisfaction.” So is it sex if its not mutually enjoyable? And if its not sex wt is it? I dunno if my qstns make sense but pls try to answer them if u can and in layman terms pls..I am not a legal practitioner.
    Pls excuse my many grammatical blunders, English hard wen u forget to chop morning food.
    0
    1. Don Flowers
      Hi, I’m sorry my reply is coming late. I saw the anger this post elicited and the various false accusations and aspersions and I wanted to move on with my life, especially as each attempt to defend my view has been misconstrued as me looking for reasons just to blame the victims.

      But I had to change my mind and do my best to engage you to show I appreciate the time and effort you have put here, thanks.

      I think necessary for repeat my abhorrence for the act rape. It is senseless and barbaric. I however cannot then accept every tale told by a girl as a rape. I must question the elements. Maybe it is due to a faulty wiring in my thinking process, or some other ish way never find.

      One thing I tried to do above was to refrain from assuming and take the tale as told by the ladies at face value. And for the lady in question, I maintain that she was not, in my opinion, raped.

      Consent, once withdrawn can be granted afresh and I believe she led the young man to believe consent had been granted afresh. Her ‘NO’, in my opinion, was in reference to being fingered.

      I agree that the dude should have asked to confirm, unfortunately, he didn’t. But the tale didn’t end there.
      When she started crying and begging, that was an unmistakable cue to stop. Consent had been revoked.
      He then got up and she remained there, legs open and he came back and penetrated her. I understand the fear that paralyzes, I’ve experienced that fear and I know from experience that it occurs in fast occurring events and not circumstances where you have minutes to think, rush for clothes, get into a defensive position or scream.
      The issue of fear must be viewed both objectively and subjectively viz: would another rational individual in her position at the time have been scared and paralyzed by the actions of the guy at the time and was she indeed paralyzed at the time as not to be able to move?
      Accepting that freezing in the face of imminent danger usually occurs in fast paced occasions would mean she fails the objective test. Her lucidity during the whole occurrence as evidenced by her vivid reporting leads me to accept that the she fails the subjective test as, in my opinion, she was sufficiently aware enough to have considered her options but she stayed back.
      Remember where I said that the fact that I don’t think she was raped doesn’t necessarily make the experience any less real for her? I meant it. So going back to read her tale still hurts but it still doesn’t convince me.

      With respect, I don’t think the wife analogy you used applies as the woman, without endorsing the act of the husband, did in fact give in voluntarily rather than continuing to hold her ground. Yes, the man should know better but ladies have to stop basing/resting their safety on whether a man is sensible or whether he has a conscience or not.

      .

      0
  31. idontlikeyouverymuch
    I’m actually really sorry I read your write up. In as much as you wanted to appear logical and objective, your bias was rather too obvious to the free minded. How dare you even suggest that a simple phrase as “feeling sleepy” is a girls “horny”. you’ve apparently lived in a type of “sex all the time” crazed rock to think a sleepy girl is not sleepy. Is that how your hunger can get that you blame girls for not saying what they mean even when it was clearly said. Why are you looking for extra meanings” for her? I read the second girl’s story to an it’s appalling and disheartening what you have twisted this into all in the name of saving and speaking for the men folk. Your definition clearly stated “intimidation” and you still found a way to write an article as this .. justifying the crime of the rapists, giving them reasons they’re not to blame. You’d probably understand this better if you were a girl which I’m sure you’re happy you’re not. Trying to explain a crime of passion with flawed logic. Couldn’t finish reading your article because incredible the point you were making. Increasing cases of anal rape of boys who didn’t physically fight back or even say “stop” have been reported at the college hospital, ever so shameful that we blame them for pulling their pants down for the penetrator based on intimidation. daughters can’t grow safely in this nation anymore… Women can’t be safe and now even weaker men because some rapist are telling themselves that the victims deserved it. ” They came to my house, they were high”. I’m not even trying to change your already made up mind. Would have ignored this but you have to know this is not it. And I’m outrightly disagreeing with a lot of unrefined phrases you blurted out. Was at a seminar where a topic like this was discussed. Definitely more convincing than this. why should someone raped, boy or girl have to also deal with your disbelief? This is something you think then you’re looking for strong laws to back it up with. Laws which by the way need to be revise, for instance in the marriage cases. Laws leaving women psychologically depressed and psychiatric wards. I would have tackled what you wrote and not you but this , I found, is your mindset. Not just pen on paper. How does a person deserve to get their face slapped because they left it bare. If you consider women created to be sexually attractive, should they now live a repressed life just not to trigger your lust? Think of people who now have suicidal thoughts cos reading your unfriendly have lead them to think they really deserved to be raped. think about relatives , friends, sisters and so who went to their friends or boyfriend’s house who you have actively accused to be stupid for that. We are very good at giving advise of things we have not experienced and even if that is cliche, it will not remove the really high percentage of molested females in the country. The sooneryou tackle that, the better.
    4+
  32. idontlikeyouverymuch
    Plus I do hope these two girls appreciate your twist of their story. Imagine one of them stumbling upon this online after they poured out their hearts to thenakedconvos.
    0
  33. idontlikeyouverymuch
    Plus I do hope these two girls appreciate your twist of their story. Imagine one of them stumbling upon this online after they poured out their hearts to thenakedconvos. And I’d appreciate you just read the sense in my post and don’t broadcast. Thank you.
    0
  34. Snakes
    I once entered a “one chance” bus on my way to work one day. The victims were only two of us and I was the only female. Was I a fool to have entered a bus filled with only male passengers, HELL YES! If I thought about it but I didn’t…. (maybe because I was trying to catch up with the staff bus) Long story short, you would think we were in it together because I just cooperated with them and the other man, let’s just say when I was dropped off, I had his blood all over my clothes. So Rape is Rape irrespective of whether the girls were “asking for it” or “have it coming” or not, just as Robbery is Robbery whether or not I was “stupid” or for “not thinking”. What I know for sure is I didn’t beg to be Robbed!
    2+
  35. Celestine
    I believe what the author was trying to establish was a scenario where rape actually happened and I believe he did an impeccable job. Just because someone screams rape does not mean that they are actually been raped. For all I know that is what Potiphar’s wife did and innocent Joseph was thrown into prison. A candid mind meticulously expressed a second thought on rape and he is tagged a “rape apologist”….. Even when the author’s first sentence was ” First off, rape is a reprehensible criminal act for which
    there can never be a justification whatsoever”, English can be confusing sometimes but a topic like “Rape Revisited: Is there defence for the accused?” clearly points to the direction the author was going. Most rape victims never recover from the psychological trauma, the act itself is barbaric and dehumanizing.
    Personally I strongly advocate stiff punishment for culprits. When someone is accused of rape, I believe he is much entitled to his side of the story as well. If every time someone screams rape and points a finger, and the accused is gunned down well God help us then. And if you still don’t believe that not all “rape screams” are actually rape pls read Genesis 39:1-20.
    2+
  36. PhoenixBubble
    Dude, you are a lawyer which means you are a minister in the temple of justice. Your duty to the society includes shaping perceptions and championing causes for better laws. I have been privileged to observe NORMAL mating behavior among dogs. I find it really interesting that the male who is on heat has to first win the battle with other males for the right to mount the female and even when he does so she may use certain body language to withdraw consent and the male will oblige her until she seeks him out again.(Yeah, wishy washiness is common in female dogs too). A dog on heat is pretty serious. I mean, heard reports of dogs jumping high fences just to find a mate when it’s mating season. Now I am very sure humans dont have that kind of “heat”. So if a dog on heat can find the will to control himself with a wishy washy female, so can any human. Learning to build self control is key otherwise you are a savage and not human.
    And the best way to cure a wishy washy female is to be firm. she says no…take her word for it. Don’t follow her in her wishy washiness and trust me, next time she wants sex with you, she will be sure. The truth is, even folks that indulge in sado masochistic sex have safe words which implies…I no longer consent and I think even in that “Grey situation”,a case of rape can be made.
    Guys, stop making it sound like arousal is something you cannot control, self control is the primary test of your manhood so get with it!

    History will judge us lawyers if we don’t advocate for safe environment for girls and women. It is this kind of perception that has led to increase in rape incidents, she said yes with her body bla bla bla!. Gender based violence is heinous and needs to go period.

    what are you are your fears on this issue really? that the less than ten percent conviction rate of rape is too high for your liking?. The standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt is enough check on ladies who you think consented but later regretted Buts to trivialize this and suggest men can have a justification no matter how lame is just, heartbreaking. We should all advocate against ALL appearances of rape, all of us. NORMAL male dogs cannot read minds yet when the female non verbally withdraws consent it works as I have seen severally.

    Every normal adult has a self control button, pls find it and press STOP when necessary. Worst case scenario, you build more stamina and cure that 30 second issue. So, …silver lining!

    0
  37. C.S.O.
    First off, this is the first time that I am commenting on this platform. I totally enjoyed reading and moving on, but this particular subject, taken in the light of the article, has held my interest and I am compelled to comment.

    Disclaimers: I am a legal practitioner and since the head article was very legalistic, my comment would be strictly legal. I hope everyone is able to follow, but I would be glad to clarify and explain any points therein.

    Two, yes Don Flowers, I am actually one of the newbies, but that does not detract from the arguments contained herein. Considering the lowly opinion you have of newbies (considering you replies to A.Y.O.) I would point out that in our profession, years just count for experience not knowledge.

    Three, this is not a reply to all of the article, but the salient legal arguments.

    Finally, this is a VERY long reply!

    Having disclaimed accordingly, let’s dig in:

    I adopt the legal definition of rape postulated by my learned senior as contained in the Criminal Code. However, a fundamental misconception noticed in the article and some of the comments I have read is what the victim consents to!

    The very important principle of consent in sexual relations vis-à-vis rape simply is ‘consent to penetrate’. The offence of rape is grounded the moment the penis ‘penetrates’ the vulva (even slightly) without consent.

    Therefore, the relevant consent as regards rape, is not consent to kiss and smooch, rather it is the unequivocal consent to penetrate.

    Accordingly, irrespective of the consents to smooch and caress given prior, the relevant question is if victim consented to the penetration.

    Arguments have been made about the victim being naked, in a vulnerable position or essentially placing herself in the circumstance where it could happen.

    In reply I state that under Nigerian law as quoted, it is not a defence that you ‘reasonably believed’ that she was consenting. It is a strict legal test, did she consent to the penetration or not simplicta. Therefore, irrespective of the disposition of the thoughts of the accused as per the victim’s consent, all the law is concerned with is whether there was actual consent or not.

    Following from the above, what then is legal consent? In R v Kaitamaki [1984] 2 All ER 435, the Privy Council stated ‘penetration is a continuous act from start to finish…’ By this definition, EVERY SINGLE TIME a guy enters and exits the vaginal canal, the lady consents EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    Therefore, even right in the middle of intercourse, legally, the lady can withdraw her consent.

    If the guy penetrates one more time after the consent has been withdrawn, he penetrates in the absence of consent and accordingly rape is grounded.

    This also strikes at the assumption that consent to smooch is consent to sex, not in the least. By the authority stated above, even consent to sex itself, is not one off for the whole act until climax, NO, it can be withdrawn.

    However, can a guy who is already ‘there’ prior to the first penetration or right in the middle of intercourse rely on the defence of insanity to a rape charge, considering as stated in the article the bindingness of the chemical setup of his brain?

    The  M’Naghten’s Case (1843) 10 C & F 200 sets out the legal definition of insanity followed in all common law jurisdictions (of which Nigeria is one). I would quote at length as to the what criminal insanity means ”the jurors ought to be told in all cases that every man is to be presumed to be sane, and to possess a sufficient degree of reason to be responsible for his crimes, until the contrary be proved to their satisfaction; and that to establish a defence on the ground of insanity, it must be clearly proved that, at the time of the committing of the act, the party accused was labouring under such a defect of reason, from disease of the mind, as not to know the nature and quality of the act he was doing; or, if he did know it, that he did not know he was doing what was wrong.”

    So: Is arousal a defect of reason? Does arousal constitute a disease of the mind? Does arousal deprive an individual of the ability to understand the nature and quality of sex? Does arousal prevent a person knowing that penetration without the express consent of the victim is wrong?

    With respect, there is a very good reason why the defence of insanity is usually only used in homicide case.

    As to the issue of bruising. With respect I submit the point was missed here.

    Bruising is NOT an element of the offence of rape. It is, simply and potentially, evidence of rape.

    In the same vein, so is resisting, screaming, claw marks on the assailant’s face, discharge in or around the vagina/vulva, presence of similar variants of STD/STIs etc.

    All of these simply are pieces of evidence to be relied on to prove that rape occurred, and accordingly the absence of one or more of the above is not conclusive of the fact that the accused is innocent!

    In the very famous case of R v Olugboja  [1982] QB 320   the English Court of Appeal held “The jury should be directed that consent, or the absence of it, is to be given its ordinary meaning and if need be, by way of example, that there is a difference between consent and submission; every consent involves a submission, but it by no means follows that a mere submission involves consent.”

    Accordingly, the fact that the victim submitted and the accused had gentle sex with her so that there was no bruising is not equivalent to consent and/or innocence. I cannot say it better than the learned Lords said it above.

    So accordingly, the fact that the ladies in the examples given in the article did not cry and claw, does not mean they were not raped. Especially the second lady who having been physical subdued already, was probably paralysed with fear, had surrendered to her ‘fate’ and to avoid any physical hurt, simply submitted.

    They might have submitted to making out and the extensive foreplay, but they did not consent to being penetrated and legally that is rape, even if they submitted.

    Finally on this point, the Supreme Court has in a plethora of cases held that evidence of the absence of consent need not be corroborated. Once there is ANY SUBSTANTIAL evidence, bruising or otherwise, that the victim did not consent, rape is established.

    Leading up from the above, what about the past pattern of behaviour? A girlfriend consenting in the past or a ‘free for all babe’.

    Pattern of previous sexual behaviour also is not an element of the offence i.e. historical consent is not evidence of instant consent. Therefore under the law, even a prostitute who has receive payment for sex can still be raped by the person who paid! The fact that she has previously consented to intercourse with other men does not evidence that she consented at the relevant time.

    This legal fact has led several county to enact various variants of the Rape Shield Law. These laws are designed to ensure that the victims previous sexual history is inadmissible (with exceptions) during a rape trial.

    Sadly there are no such laws in Nigeria. But it is still a legal fact that all the law is concerned with is at the material time, did the victim expressly consent to be penetrated or not. Not whether she had consented in the past.

    In the light of my submissions above, it is clear that the article is very lopsided as regards the law.

    It is a good but rather slanted view of the law from the perspective of a Defence counsel during a rape trial, but is not representative of the neutral position of the law.

    I get Don Flowers qualm, there is a need to scrutinize an accusation of rape to ascertain its veracity, if for nothing else, because it is a grave accusation. But legally, that is what a trial is for! With the attendant right of being innocent until proven guilty.

    Like I stated above, this has been very legal and I deliberately avoided the social cum moral dimensions of the offence of rape, because the article also skirted this aspects. I just wanted to disabuse the notion that the article represents the truest legal position of rape.

    PS: Indeed under Nigerian law (sadly) a husband cannot rape his wife. This is a common law principle that we borrowed from the British, the history of which is rooted in the patriarchal and mysoginistic writings of Lord Hale, written at a time when women could not own property in their own right and were considered their husband’s chattel (i.e. property).

    However, as far back as 1991 in R v R [1991] 3 WLR 766, the House of Lords (the UK’s highest Court) held “The common law is, however, capable of evolving in the light of changing social, economic and cultural developments. Hale’s proposition reflected the state of affairs in these respects at the time it was enunciated. Since then the status of women, and particularly of married women, has changed out of all recognition in various ways which are very familiar and upon which it is unnecessary to go into detail. Apart from property matters and the availability of matrimonial remedies, one of the most important changes is that marriage is in modern times regarded as a partnership of equals, and no longer one in which the wife must be the subservient chattel of the husband. Hale’s proposition involves that by marriage a wife gives her irrevocable consent to sexual intercourse with her husband under all circumstances and irrespective of the state of her health or how she happens to be feeling at the time. In modern times any reasonable person must regard that conception as quite unacceptable.”

    This is as true now as it was then, the Nigerian situation is as outdated as it is unconscionable and immoral. A man should not be excused forceful penetration on the grounds of matrimony. It makes a mockery of the institution and the rights of a woman as protected by law!

    5+
  38. Cool Breeze
    Sorry Mr. author. i didn’t read your post, funny enough most guys have this same line of thought but you were the only one brave enough to blog about it on tnc..what does that make you? i dunno either. No need writing a long analysis, or arguing about it with all your heart and strong convictions. Rape is Rape…if he/she says NO..then you should stop, check if its okay, continue if it is, but when you fuck someone without consent, nobody should ever try to analyze the situation when its clear it was WITHOUT consent. Period. Guys, if she says she doesn’t want, don’t go tearing into her, as if its your birthright, cause i assure you, you’ll pay for it heavily. Can i get an Amen?!
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  39. Kells
    I really get the point the writer and OD were trying to make I just don’t understand why people were misinterpreting it with long comments and a bunch of people saying the same thing over and over again.
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  40. Omo Onyeoma
    No consent = Rape
    I don’t want to know if her vagina was a tap
    I don’t care what kind of no was said
    as long as there was a no.

    May my daughter never call a man like you husband.

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  41. Omo Onyeoma
    Thank you Amaka and the young new lawyer
    I was weak when he was talking…

    Just to clarify that i don’t usually insult people but if he is the opposition lawyer he will drive swords into the hearts of victims and claim he is doing i or Jesus and even get halleluyahs from the audience. Thank God for you guys. God will locate you in better firms so that the justice system of Nigeria can get better in Jesus name, amen

    Some of those his clients need to be behind bars along with the stupid ideas in their head.

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