A world renowned female preacher recently took to Instagram advising young ladies to always take a plate of food to their boyfriends or husbands when at events, even before they serve themselves. As you would expect several women decided to engage in arguments for and against her opinion. ‘Why couldn’t he get himself a plate of food? Why was she expected to serve him instead of serving herself? Why couldn’t he serve her prior to serving himself? Why should women display submission even in courtships? Was serving him an act of submission, respect, or good manners?’

Submission in marriage is often preached in Christian circles and is directed by the Bible. When discussed, it often raises the question; how does this instruction apply in the modern day marriage? In the 21st-century when women are working twice as hard as men, and earning more as well, is this instruction still applicable? Is the Bible outdated? Or is it ageless?

However, this submission conundrum is not new. It is one that I have heard women and men argue about since I was a young child. And it would seem like women in biblical times were not happy about it either. So the question remains; Why should a woman submit to her husband? Is there any benefit in submission? How can a feminist husband expect a submissive wife?

I will proceed to list five arguments I have encountered for and against the submission issue in marriage with the hope that we may validate and nullify a few of such arguments.

1) Who has the money? There seems to be an argument going around about the fact that seeing as men were the main bread winners in biblical times, submission was advisable. However, in the 21st century this law can be modified depending on who the major breadwinner is.  Some suggest that if the woman has the money, and brings home the bacon, the husband is responsible for the cooking and serving of the bacon.

2) Feminism; many suggest that this is an equality issue. This line of thought implies that submission means to be subservient and oppressed. Some feminists within the church who are pro submission say that it is in fact not an equality issue, but about role recognition. The wife is supposed to be a ‘helper’ and not dominate or rule over her husband.

3) Another school of thought reminds us that the Proverbs 31 woman, was actually a working woman. She worked in the home both as a wife and mother and in the secular world as a business woman. So if she could submit to her husband, so can today’s woman. This argument suggests that the modern day woman cannot use career goals and aspirations as an excuse to avoid submission.

4) Husbands to be like Jesus; I heard someone once say that the Bible asks husbands to love their wives to the point of dying for them, however it doesn’t ask wives to do the same. I suppose women have an easier role in that respect. But how many modern men would willingly have a headache for their wives, let alone die in her place, regardless of whether she was a ‘good wife’ or not?

5) Bible; The final one suggests that a Christian marriage is based on principles that sets it apart from others, just like the Christian life; hence submission is not an option, but an instruction.

So, what do you think? Which school of thought do you agree with? Have you heard more persuasive arguments, than those listed above? Is submission a redundant law or is it necessary in today’s broken world? If you are a woman, do you submit or intend to? As a man do you expect submission? Do you find submission more attractive in a spouse or future spouse? Ladies, if at a wedding do you serve ‘Bae’ small chops before you settle yourself?

Do share your thoughts below!  You know Dami loves to chat.

Until next time.

Image via examiner.com

Responses

  1. Vivian
    My mum was a “Jacky”, had different businesses, but my dad always had home cooked meal prepared for him by my mum everyday! She was not a pushover, she was a strong willed person, and stubborn too, but when it came to her home and marriage…she always took care of him, she was submissive to him.

    Being submissive doesn’t mean you’re the man’s slave, its just something that to me feels natural for women, we have this tendency to nurture, to always take care of people or things. That doesn’t mean we’re weak.

    I’m of the school of thought that women should submit to their husbands

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    1. Tiki
      Being ‘submissive’ is not a ‘natural’ thing. Having à period is natural. Growing breasts and pubicc hair is natural. Having to give someone food before you eat yourself is not – it is a mental condition largely defined by society, and which is acceptable to some women and abhorrent to others.
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      1. Bellaoma
        ‘Having to give someone food before you eat yourself’ is NOT a mental condition……it actually comes naturally…..ask any mum or maybe most……..and some women. women are nuturers by nature….selah (this has absolutely nothing to do with submission)
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  2. Atoke
    I’m in support of submission as a wife..at times thats the only thing keeping a home together. With the financial emancipation of women and legalization of gay marriage; submission from the wife’s angle might be the only thing that will hold marriage has an institution.
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  3. JADE
    The major problem is that people only take the beginning of that instruction and forget about the second part, the instruction says “Wife be submissive unto thine husband, husband love your wife as Christ loved the church”. Any woman that her husband shows the kind of love Christ showed the church will be submissive, using the example you gave about food, the man who loves his wife like Christ loves the church will be so eager to get food for his hungry wife while she will be eager to serve her hungry husband and nobody has the time to measure who brought what for who? they may even end up on the food line together gisting and talking about what to get and share from each other!!!
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    1. MIA
      Can I hug you??? (((())) You are so on point… Why do they forget that part? If you love me like Christ loves the church submitting to you will be as easy as breathing.
      2+
    2. DamiLoves
      Jade!! Thanks for your comment. You are right, I’m sure it’ll be easier to submit to a loving husband. But what happens when he is not so ‘loving’ or ‘worthy’, do we ignore the instruction to submit in such a situation?
      1+
      1. Slim
        I was about to ask that question. The instruction is to the woman and the man but it doesn’t say submit as long as he loves you. I believe for the Christians, everyone should stay in their role, and submission does not mean slavery, being inferior, or being a door mat. If the Bible is not your guide, then consider that there cannot be two captains steering a ship or 2 Chairmen of a company. Obviously in reality the 2IC exercises some measure of autonomy occasionally but someone has to lead. If you do not trust your partner’s ability to lead you then you should rethink the relationship.

        The serving of food example is not very apt in describing submission because I think it is simply good manners and something you do for someone (people) you care about – serve them before yourself, whether you are a guy or a lady. You have to be pretty special to sit at a table while others watch you eat.

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  4. Omotola Ajibade
    Please, I’m not looking for a slave. All of that “submit to the will of your husband” stuff breeds unequal power dynamics. On the extreme, that’s how domestic violence starts. Please, unless I am not medically able or indisposed for other reasons, I can get my own plate.
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    1. DamiLoves
      Tola, I have not encountered many men with an opinion like yours. As a result, I have a question. What happens when important decisions need to be made in the home and your wife disagrees with your choice? Do you have a default solution?
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      1. Omotola Ajibade
        ehn we will put it up for debate naa ni. I fully expect that we will both be intelligent individuals capable of reasoning with logic. If the decision is that important, then it should be made of one accord so that if things don’t turn out well, you can’t point to the other person and “it’s all your fault,” when the decision goes south.
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    2. Olayinka
      A thousand likes for this comment Tola. All this talk about submission is just disgusting. Submission indicates master-slave relationship. Domination of the other person’s will. How’s that sexy?
      3+
      1. OHIO
        so what happens if the so called ‘master- slave relationship’ is vice versa and it’s done in love, i guess you will fine it enticing then and not disgusting… Yet it’s still submissiveness
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  5. Lipglossmaffia
    What’s with all the roles? Can’t we just get along?!? Husband cook. Wife cook. Man on top. Woman on top. Let’s just get along!!! With the amount of divorces today, I think we should realise that, there is no rule book. Just do you!
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  6. blaqlotus
    I am a traditional and a godly woman, i believe in submission to my husband. Submission doesn’t make you a slave, doesn’t make you loose your self respect, doesn’t mean putting his needs before yours. Every woman in the bible who was known for greatness was submissive to a man, and they were known as strong women. You don’t demand equality with a man by asking or fighting for it, you earn it by being submissive. Shikina.
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  7. Lady Ngo
    First off, someone should truly define this submission thing. I don’t see how fixing my husbands meal falls under the category of submitting.

    Anyhow, people should just do what suits them and their marriage. If fixing your husband’s plate makes you happy, go and do it. If the husband likes to cook and wishes to serve his wife, let him and go and do it. People too like trouble with all these rules and regulations.

    10+
  8. Kanyinsola Olorunnisola
    I think submission and inferiority are definitely twins. You cannot submit to someone you are equal to. Respect should be reciprocaal in marriage. Now that does not meaan roles should not still be split traditiionally. Let the man be the breadwinner while the woman takes homely duties. That is equal to mme. Please visit my blog for more. http://kanyinsola.mywapblog.com/
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  9. Obroni
    There seems to be some confusion between submission and being homely/caring for people. I may cook for a guy, same way I would cook for my sister or friend that visits, but that doesn’t make me submissive. I like to cook and feed people. It’s not my job/role as a woman. It’s just something I like to do. The day I don’t feel like it, every man for himself. I’m not a submissive woman and I can’t be a submissive wife. If we’re not equals, we’re not getting married in the first place. I don’t buy into rules that only favor one party, especially when that party is not me.
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  10. Olayinka
    What is submission? submission
    səbˈmɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
    noun
    1.
    the action of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.
    “they were forced into submission”
    synonyms: yielding, capitulation, agreement, acceptance, consent, accession, compliance
    “an instinctive submission to authority”
    That’s dictionary meaning of that word. Do I have a problem submitting to a husband going by this definition? Hmm.. Let’s see..
    Will I see my husband as a force of authority? I already have force s of authority in my life; my parents and my boss in the office. Will I desire to have the kind of relationship I have with my parents and boss with my husband. No I won’t.
    As my huaband, I expect that he should be my best friend and companion. The one person I can be stupid and silly and disgusting with and he’ll find all of that cute in our own bizzare way. I can’t have that with my parents. They’ll scold me. My boss will get me fired or come on to me if I’m too cute with him.
    Having considered all of that, when it comes ro taking decisions concerning the family, I don’t think it should get to the point where my husband will try to assert his husbandness over me. We’re partners. Respect must be mutual in our family. He can assert his authority over our children. I am not my husband’s child.
    Submitting to him sounds like he’s replacing my father. I don’t want to be having sex with my father. I’ll resist every attempt at my husband seeking submission from me. It’s never happening.
    10+
  11. SeryxMe
    First off, just as everyone has a choice to decide to get married or not, you should do what is best understood between you and your spouse. Peace and harmony is important.

    However, what I will disagree with is the notion that being a submissive wife is negative or derogatory in any way. If you do not believe in being submissive, fine. To each his/her own, but do not attempt to tell those who accept it that they are lower than they can be. Tola asserts that this is what breeds domestic violence. That is wrong. Men without control will always be without control, submissive wife or not. Any man with too strong a sense of entitlement to his partner (seeing her as a property owned) will tend to be violent. It doesn’t require the issue of submission to interfere.

    Now, clarifying this, I don’t know how the traditional setup of submission is supposed to work or what it is supposed to achieve but I know it is laid out in the Bible. If you’re a Christian and believe the Bible, then being a submissive wife is as much a Christian duty as anything else. Outside the Bible, I really cannot help you make sense of it, so do not ask.

    Now, here’s why I closed it up around the Bible. I recently read a post on Facebook by a lady trying to use the Bible to explain that God didn’t really mean that women are weak by the statement “weaker vessels”. She went on to give a contorted explanation about how it actually is used in reference to how women relate to God and all. My response is the same. Do not try to use the Bible to support feminist ideologies.

    For one thing, being called “the weaker vessel” even if it means you’re not as strong as the men (which is often naturally the case) does not make you any lesser a human being. This is where the issue of being submissive comes into play. A submissive wife is NOT a slave to the husband but God likes to put things in hierarchy. The passages supporting the idea of submissiveness generally put Jesus ahead of the man who is then ahead of the woman. That is the hierarchy placed and mainly comes from the notion that God created the woman out of the man. The implication of this for me is that the man has the obligation to submit to Christ first for him to receive the submission of a woman. And the simple truth is that if a man submits to Christ, he would love his wife as much as Christ loved the church, meaning he would go as far as laying down his life for her. So the wife’s role is to submit to the husband and the husband’s role is to love the wife unconditionally.

    Now, understand this. Jesus washed the feet of his disciples at a certain point and the message was simple – to lead is to serve. In the Christian setup, the husband leads and if he truly knows Christ, he’ll know he’s not to expect the wife to be the servant in the house. He has to carry out duties in the house as much as her. If he can cook for her, he should, if it helps. If I am to give a direction as to where submission is reflected, it’s often in decision-making and her willingness to let him lead. It’s like he will be the driver and she the navigator.

    At the end of the day, it really isn’t as complicated as everyone makes it out to be. It’s a system set up to breed love, peace, harmony and order. If you’re willing to be a submissive wife, your priority should be finding a man that will abide by Christ’s rules. Anything outside that and you’re on your own.

    Again, being submissive within the Christian setting does NOT make you a slave or a lesser person. It’s just an obedience to the order and hierarchy as stated. It doesn’t give the man any undue right over the woman. And it is not something a man has to demand. It is an arrangement that actually works without either party forcing the issue. Outside Christianity, well, I don’t know.

    I rest.

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    1. Olayinka
      You made plenty sense my brother. Only that from your description of ‘christian’ submission, you succeeded in describing a perfect synergetic partnership. Roles are divided between the couple and each other along in the other’s decision. And they all respect each other’s boundaries especially where such boundaries have been clearly delineated.
      There’s no submission here. That’s a compatible and unified relationship. A model relationship. I think the bible needs an urgent review. There are certain words in the book that are just incompatible with current sentiments.
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      1. SeryxMe
        Like most things in life, there’s always the tendency to take the Bible out of context. But it isn’t a problem with the Bible, it’s a problem with the people. The Bible is perfect as it is but it’s the people who need a re-review of how they approach it. The Bible isn’t just a secular book you read and understand with just your mind. It is why it is pointless to argue about it with people who don’t believe in it in the first place. Understanding the Bible requires some spiritual insight.

        The truth is that submission as stated in the Bible isn’t an issue that should be debated. It’s not something that the husband demands. It’s not a right he has to enforce. Just like Christ isn’t forcing the husband to submit to Him, it is something you have to decide to give. If you’re going to be a true Christian, you have to choose to be under Christ. Same way the wife understands that she has to submit to the husband. Like I said previously, “If I am to give a direction as to where submission is reflected, it’s often in decision-making and her willingness to let him lead.” The woman has to subvert her desire to want to be heard by all means. If your husband follows biblical principles, you won’t need to fight to be heard. He will listen when it comes to that. But you have to be willing to let him lead. That’s submission.

        8+
    2. DamiLoves
      Thank you Seryxme for taking time out to define Biblical submission to us. I suppose if both parties are Christians who submit to Christ, they will be able to figure the rules out together.
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      1. SeryxMe
        I suppose so. For me, I think if they’re both true Christians they’ll both understand their obligations and there’ll be no need to fight over the issue of submission.
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      1. SeryxMe
        Thanks for the compliment, D.K.. I think I express myself better when I’m able to gather my thoughts. As for talking, well, I think people that know me will be better judges of that. ?
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  12. kmerlyt
    Are there really Christians who question submission? I don’t get it. Submission is a Biblical instruction to Christian wives, it is equivalent to a commandment. So forget feminists and contemporary culture, why will people who identify as Christians question submission (an issue powerfully re-iterated in the New Testament)? It is either you accept the entire Bible as true or reject all of it. God’s Word goes beyond time and age, submission of a Christian wife to the leadership of her husband is required and indispensable for a fulfilled and successful marriage.
    2+
    1. Fefee
      No No No, it’s not equivalent to a commandment. Did you see “equivalent” in the Bible? You cannot use the bible to accuse me or convince me to do what I am uncomfortable doing. I know all too well about gender roles, I studied it as a research topic and before they are men, they are human beings and human beings take things for granted. Let’s try this, for people who grew up in great homes(unless your parents had strict rules which you gotta agree is bad for your marriage), you complained a lot, about what you went to school with, what you had for lunch when you return, when they wake you up and a whole other things and if you’re lucky, truly lucky, then you understood what mother’s day was and appreciated it. Men from such great homes (for them, ask your momma how well she loved it) search for their moms in their wives. The problem is, I don’t feel the need to labour with the hope of getting appreciation on one day unless you’re a child. I will do all these strange submission thing if I want to and stop when I want. He has to see it as a blessing that it is and not my job. my job is to treat people and be a great mom and wife. Support not submit unless I want to.
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  13. yettie
    As a Christian…The Bible is my watchword..and whatever the bible says should never be contested…I don’t see why we should only choose parts of the bible that favours us and try to debate the parts that don’t….God said wives submit..husbands love your wives the way christ loves the church…first of all as a woman submit!!! If your husband doesn’t obey his own part..that is between him and God..do your own part by submitting…We all know the phrase stoop to conquer..I don’t know why this whole feminist hoo haa” is making women feel degraded…I have never heard of any woman that served her home nor submitted that didn’t come out victorious
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  14. Seyi
    I’ve seen women who were submissive and not victorious. I believe when people contend what’s in the bible it’s not because they not accept the bible or make it their watchword. It only means they have different understanding. Sadly the most popular understanding is the societal one. Two preachers can take a bible passage and end up bringing out two different lessons. It’s not that they are wrong. In the name of submission people have trodden on women especially the men folk, they call on the bible when it suits them barring that they don’t live according to it o. My sister’s pastor has told the wife right in the service that she should shut up that she’s speaking while he is and that she should remember what the bible said. He then proceeded to talk about an occurrence like that where he was in his car with his wife and a subordinate and he chastised her like that. Said she can’t speak until they get home. He says he tells her to keep quiet and like a good wife she listens! Mo gbe! Is this man loving his wife like the bible said? Cos me don’t think if you love your wife to the point of death that you’ll be embarrassing her like this. And this supports the patriarchal society where they tell the ladies to keep quite especially in family gatherings. As if they are idiots that are not capable of rational thoughts and contributions. My understanding of the bible is that what the bible is trying to preach there is that husband and wife should both love and submit to each other. I don’t see a guy going about quoting that bible and saying the lady he loves shouldn’t love him back that it’s only submission he wants. In the name of this submission husbands will take decisions that affects the family on their own as if wives and children can’t think. We know how children’s opinions are not important to adults but the wives nko? This is evident in how some husbands build family houses without the input of the wife and kids. They say they are building the house as they want cos they’ll live in it, the other family members nko won’t that live in it? And when the woman complains they’ll tell her ‘is it your money?’ even if she has money invested in it. Someone wrote up there a leader serves, please how many of these men know that? How many live like that? Men love and submit to your wives, wives love and submit to your husbands. Work out your partnership as it suits you biko. I am not marrying my dad or boss like someone said up there. Same reason I can’t call my boyfriend or husband ‘bro’ just because the society thinks it is disrespectful. #Rubbish
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    1. 11
      ”Someone wrote up there a leader serves, please how many of these men know that? How many live like that? Men love and submit to your wives, wives love and submit to your husbands”. I agree with this statement, in more cases than not, we men get the whole idea wrong, some end up feeling entitled to some things ladies have no problems doing. And dare i say, upbringing goes a long way in this issue, i have a friend that never washes his dishes when he’s done eating, doesn’t even cook, just sits and expects his sister to do it all. I stayed with them for a while and when we’re done with dinner i do all the dishes, i could tell his sister was surprised and soon after she started telling him to handle his dishes. That was just an example between siblings, now imagine that in a marriage and i get why many people are miffed at the whole submission talk. It’s teamwork but perhaps guys should truly understand the biblical definition of love.
      3+
      1. Seyi
        Thank you. About this upbringing sef I don’t think all these guys shouting they want to marry Dangote’s daughter and the likes will ask her to wash the dishes and ask the floor. Or the submission things don’t apply to them? During a discussion with a friend I told him how Nigerians operates double standards in their expectations from Nigerian raised children and those outside. He later told me that he noticed it in his uncle and told him about it. His uncle expects cooking and such from his Nigerian girl friends, and said a wife or girlfriend should call the husband’s younger ones as ‘aunty’ and ‘brother’ to show them respect and one that doesn’t do that won’t make a good wife. My friend then told him that his fiancée born and raised outside the country isn’t doing that (yes he is engaged and still has like four girlfriends here). And he said she isn’t raised here so she is excused. To which my friend asked if she didn’t have Yoruba parents (the initial stand by the uncle was that if they have Yoruba parents then they must have been taught how to behave). This uncle is someone that doesn’t cook at all, my friend does everything including house care but he told me when he is married he will start cos his wife doesn’t do such. This man will not have excused this if it is someone like me (born, bred and haven’t left this shores). So I guess some people can be excused from this submission thing even if their religion preaches it.‎
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  15. saga
    I think it’s awesome that some supporters of both parties have been able to give clear and compelling points. But for those who say the bible is timeless and ageless,i beg to disagree. It seems we have chosen to neglect the fact that the bible was written by humans like us(even if it’s inspired by God) who were also subject to cultural and societal sentiments(in this case patriachy) prevalent in their time and the fact that it’s in the bible doesn’t make it culturally relevant to this time. Everyone here has been saying submission isn’t slavery yet we forget that slaves were also encouraged in the bible to honour their masters for example but that doesn’t make slavery acceptable today and that doesn’t make the bible less of God’s word. Like it has been stated severally here,love is the most important thing not the submission itself. Christ loves us whether we submit or not and that should be what men should focus on and not to expect submission like a dictatorial lord.
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    1. SeryxMe
      I think I’ll give one single reply to you and Seun because you both express the same sort of ideas in terms of adapting the Bible to suit our time. You see, this is where Christianity started going wrong. There can be no two different interpretation of the same Bible doctrine. At least, one of them is wrong.

      However you try to look at it, God has always had an order, or hierarchy if you will, and He expresses it clearly in the Bible. He gives leadership priority to the man mainly because he created the woman out of him.

      If you agree that the Bible is inspired of God, like you seem to do, then do you think He isn’t aware of the fact that there would be a cultural influence on the writers? How much of the culture reflects in Bible as strict doctrinal principles? My guess is that if God inspired the Bible and allowed these influences in written doctrinal statements then He is in support of it. Who are we then to say it is wrong just because it doesn’t suit our time?

      When God wanted to use a new approach for salvation, he clearly allowed the New Testament to be written. If He needed us to adapt to new ways to approach these issues, He would clearly have indicated. There are some things that are actually optional, like marriage for instance.

      With your reference to slavery, it’s a fact that it was a thing back then (and there’s still some form of it now) but the whole point of the text is about the principle. If you find yourself a slave to a master, follow the principle. If slavery no longer exists, then fine, but you will have to cancel having a wife to subvert the doctrine of submission. When there are no more wives (or it becomes outlawed to be a wife) then we can bother about one less doctrine.

      The complain is always the same about people misusing Christian doctrines to benefit themselves. But this is the reality of life in general. It is the reason many people think religion is a problem. But the truth is that the people are (and will always be) the problem. We’ve always found ways to use noble causes for selfish and sinister plans.

      There is nothing wrong with the doctrine of submission if applied in the right way with the right person. You’ll find out at the end of the day that it all ends up with love as the basis of it all.

      At the end of the day, this issue is just a small part of what Christianity is all about.

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      1. saga
        1. “There can be no two different interpretations of the same Bible doctrine. At least, one of them is wrong”- I don’t think I agree with this. Two pastors can read a verse in the bible and have different explanations and understandings of it,doesn’t mean either of them is wrong. Look at the issue of marriage in acts 7 where Paul was only giving an opinion. If you were to accept that as infallible then no one should get married according to the bible simply because it’s written there. So many places in the NT where even the apostles(including those who wrote parts of the bible) disagreed on certain issues,doesn’t mean God wasn’t in them. (eg when Paul and Barnabbas split)

        “My guess is that if God inspired the Bible and allowed these influences in written doctrinal statements then He is in support of it”-Okay I’d like to reply to this by saying that any objective and honest reader of the bible knows that there are occasional contradictions and inconsistencies in it(just use google and you’ll be amazed). One easy example,the last words of Jesus,the gospels don’t actually agree on what they were. One says “it is finished”,another says “into your hands I commit my spirit”. And this is just one out of hundreds of other inconsistencies. Now why did God allow that? Does it mean he failed? No! You should realize that water(God’s inspiration) cannot fill a vessel(the human mind) without taking the shape of the vessel(human understanding and mindsets). No matter how full of the Spirit he is,there’s no way Paul can ACCURATELY describe the internet for example. Why? Because his mind is limited.
        “There are some things that are actually optional, like marriage for instance”- So marriage is optional to God but submission in marriage isn’t??? Do you think God has an opinion on everything in the world except whether to marry or not?
        “There is nothing wrong with the doctrine of submission if applied in the right way with the right person”- This is just like saying there’s nothing wrong with slavery if the principle of slaves loving and honouring their masters is applied in the right way.
        You need to realize that the writers of the bible not only addressed spiritual issues but societal and cultural ones too and thus,all of it can’t be applicable to us. (The issue of a woman covering her head is one of them but no space to discuss that). And the point of the bible isn’t to take God’s place in our lives,there was a pre-bible era and the people who lived without a bible didn’t die neither were the without God’s guidance. The Bible =/= God. Never has,never will.

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        1. SeryxMe
          Not wanting to turn this into a biblical discussion but to address a few things.

          First and foremost is the fact that reading the Bible isn’t the same as understanding it. And there are key principles in the Bible which is why God gave it to us. Even through ordinary reading sometimes you’d know when Paul is laying forth an opinion and when he is actually making doctrinal statements.

          1. “Two pastors can read a verse in the bible and have different explanations and understandings of it, doesn’t mean either of them is wrong.” This is not correct. There can’t be two different ‘understandings’ of the Bible if there is one Spirit. God does not author confusion. Your statement “If you were to accept that as infallible…” makes my point. Why would you accept it as infallible when it is not? Are you saying if a pastor uses this as a doctrinal statement, rather than the opinion that it is, he isn’t wrong. I still maintain, there can be only one interpretation because there is only One Spirit. The Spirit gives understanding.

          2. “…according to the bible simply because it’s written there.” I never said follow everything that is written there. There are stories there we just need to learn from. Many of the Old Testament books are there as historical records. The New Testament carries a lot of doctrinal statements that apply to that time forward (the Christians). What I am saying is that when doctrinal statements are made, they are to be followed, not just “because it is written there” but because they are doctrinal statements.

          3. “…any objective and honest reader of the bible knows that there are occasional contradictions and inconsistencies in it” I am very aware of the “many contradictions” you speak of but most are mainly on issues that generally do not have major bearing on Christian principles and doctrines (like your example, for instance). But even on this, I give the same response, the Bible requires spiritual understanding. It is not a textbook that you find different editions having different errors and you don’t know which is correct. It is a book that brings the knowledge of God and encourages you to seek Him. When I have questions about the book, I’d rather ask Him than ask Google. In case you want a few clarifications on some of these contradictions, carm.org is a good place to start.

          4. “No matter how full of the Spirit he is,there’s no way Paul can ACCURATELY describe the internet for example. Why? Because his mind is limited.” If it is prophetically relevant, there would be some form of description because the spirit transcends the mind, but that is beside the point. There are enough miracles to show that the Spirit transcends the mind and the physical. The point is that when principles are laid out in the Bible, they are actually timeless, until God Himself restates them otherwise (like He changed stuff from the OT in the NT). The Spirit actually takes your understanding beyond your limitations.

          5. “So marriage is optional to God but submission in marriage isn’t???” Marriage isn’t a doctrine enforced by the Bible but it is advised for many varied reasons (to curb the tendency for fornication, for instance, like Paul said). And once you decide to get married, the stated principle is binding. The issue of submission is a commandment by God, not an opinion of Paul.

          6. “This is just like saying there’s nothing wrong with slavery if the principle of slaves loving and honouring their masters is applied in the right way.” Nope. They aren’t the same thing and you won’t achieve anything by twisting words. Slavery is enforced by people without the will of the slave. Submission is a doctrine from God which you can choose whether to follow or not. I did state in my first explanation that “If I am to give a direction as to where submission is reflected, it’s often in decision-making and her willingness to let him lead.” and that “It’s just an obedience to the order and hierarchy as stated. It doesn’t give the man any undue right over the woman. And it is not something a man has to demand.”

          I do not intend to start a Bible lesson because, frankly speaking, I’m not a Bible scholar. But one thing I’m sure of is that Christianity lost it’s way when people started using their minds to understand the Bible rather than the Spirit. I’ll repeat, the Spirit will never ever give two different interpretations to Bible passages. Only men would.

          Finally, the only reason people would object or not understand the principle of submission is because they do not want to accept that God places the man in a position of higher authority than the woman and this is because he created the woman out of the man and because of the man. This, however, is not an authority a man gives himself, which means he can’t operate outside of God’s principles and be asserting such authority. If he works within God’s principles, he will not abuse such authority. That is why no man is expected to ask that his wife to submit him. Her submission to him is in obedience to God and not to him but he has to do his part (submit to Christ).

          On the Bible, it is the Word of God. It is what brings the knowledge of God. It is not to be read with the natural mind, otherwise all you will keep seeing are the fallibility that have been defined by people who do not accept it as the true word of God. The Bible exposes the mind of God (which is why it was inspired by His Spirit in the first place) and it requires the Spirit of God to unlock its true understanding. It is not the physical book that you see that is important, it is the knowledge that lies within it. Yes, the Bible is infallible!

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  16. S
    YO!!!!!

    This matter is simple-ish. Treat as you want to be treated. Not everytime I get your plate of food, sometimes, get up off your ass and do it for yourself, or for me.
    Gender roles have evolved past women doing all the shit for men, women make their own living now please, not about that serve him first all the time. If i’m hungry, i’ll serve myself and eat a few slices and then if i’m feeling good, maybe serve yours too and aint nothing in the world is wrong with that, because it doesnt mean i love you less.

    1. It’s not always about who has the money. The idea that because someone is not the breadwinner, he/she has to bow to the every word and command of the spouse is crap. ugh! We are in this relationship or whatever together so we both get a fair say.

    2. I’ve expressed my feminist views on this matter, we both do shit for each other, not everytime the woman. in fact no one person should have bragging right over who does more shit for the other person,it should be well blended. The wife isn’t the helper, both spouses are supposed to help each other, complement each other’s awesomeness, not that the woman will now assume the role of a crutch. No.

    3. Valid that a woman shouldn’t use the fact that she’s working to be insubordinate, also the man cant use that he’s a man to also be insubordinate. Submission SHOULD NOT be associated with solely women in the first place. A man isnt any less of a man if he submits to his wife.

    I have no comments about the last two arguments. submission or whatever isn’t a quality that should be expected with just the wife, she is married to a woman or a man, it’s expected that both parties submit when necessary and stand their ground when necessary.

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    1. Seyi
      Thank you jere. These soap operas preach this. The ones about family life like One love, Kamson and neighbours, extended family (don’t know how recent ones) and going international to Disney’s family soap operas. In these families people know their weaknesses. The parents know where they compliment each other especially when it comes to house care and the children. If the father is the sterner front they know when he comes in or the softness of the mother and vice versa. If the mother can’t cook, nothing edible, everyone seems in the family does it asides her. When a child needs someone to talk to the best person that the child will be receptive too goes the child. People say these soap operas are not reality maybe it’s time to make them. The long and short of this is that, the wife and husband compliments each other in a marriage, that is why it is a partnership. 1 + 1= 1 not 1.5 + 5.5= 1. When that is done I believe submission and love will be done on both sides like I earlier said.‎
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  17. lols
    This is the first time am actually going thru the comments section and I must say seryxme took time to explain things. A lot of pple would still come and say let’s do stuff and shii* for each other because we are in the age of feminism and equality and how the bible doesn’t apply for these times…….sha seryxme has said it all.
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  18. Seriously...
    This might come as a surprise to many of us, but a few verses before all the “wife submit” and “husband love” in Ephesians, it actually says “Submit to one another.” *Sips Kunu*

    That connotes a relationship where each love and respect each other. He gets foods for me, I get food for him. I give him the respect of not making decisions without being in agreement with him. He extends the same to me. I stay faithful to him and he does to me. I respect his opinion and he respects mine. We choose names for each other and call ourselves by it.

    Frankly, I think that people who mean well, often create problems for families with unnecessary rules.

    Aside from the fact that I have not written it yet, why aren’t there more titled “Should men love their wives?” There seems to be this worrying obsession with “making women submit”. Almost like a wife’s submission is more important for a marriage than the love of a husband. Oftentimes, it is code for “Women should agree to be treated as inferior, possibly mistreated.”

    When we each think about God’s purpose for marriage, do you really imagine him bothering about who earns what, who serves who food and all this other stuff that people make their business?

    Let us each work toward having happy marriages and homes full of real love and the rest will take care of itself abeg.

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